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software for backing up data CDs ?

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software for backing up data CDs ?

Postby dodecahedron on Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:16 pm

i know this might seem like a silly question to you experts, but...:

for duplicating (backing up) data CDs, does it make a difference which software i use?

i know CloneCD and Alcohol 120% are considered good for duplicating CDs, but for just plain data CDs (software installers like Windows, Office, Visual Studio, etc. and data file CDs) are they any better than say just Nero, Easy CD Creator, burnatonce etc. ?
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Postby CowboySlim on Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:00 pm

I dunno', dode,

I just use Nero to copy CDs such as those that applications come on like Nero, Windows XP, etc. I don't use direct, or on-the-fly, copy but let Nero make an image and then burn that back out. They always work fine when I test them. I guess that the error correction takes care of everything. I make copies of all the application CDs that I buy.

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Postby pranav81 on Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:54 am

Dear dodecahedron,
Hi.There is actually a little generation loss when you copy a CD with any software.It normally takes 7 to 8 generations to notice the loss.Actually there is no difference between copying a CD using Nero/Roxio and CloneCD/Alcohol.The catch is that Nero/Roxio cant copy copy-protected CD's and CloneCD/Alcohol can copy them.

You can check the written number of sectors in the original CD and the newly burned/copied CD.The number of sectors is not same,actually it should be.I tried using all the softwares.This shows that the copy in not perfect,although it works.

See ya later,


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Postby dodecahedron on Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:44 am

how do you check the number of sectors?
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Postby MediumRare on Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:41 am

pranav81 wrote:There is actually a little generation loss when you copy a CD with any software.It normally takes 7 to 8 generations to notice the loss.

How is this supposed to happen? :o Can you supply more information?

dodecahedron wrote:how do you check the number of sectors?

Try KProbe, use the "Raw Cmd" tab and the "READ CAPACITY" command from the list box at upper mid-right. The results are shown hex coded. This should work on pretty well any MMC compliant drive, not just LiteOn drives (just tried it with a BTC-OEM DVD-Rom). :D

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Postby pranav81 on Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:10 am

Dear MediumRare,
Hi.I actually remember reading that in the help section of CloneCD version 3.And I have seen something happen to the CD when the CD are copied in chain form from the burned discs.For example I had this game Cricket 97.I came across the 10th or 11th generation of its copy and noticed that the CD autoran any time,the CD-ROM had problems reading it,etc.But the original CD still runs fine on the same computer.I actually didnt believe it,but had to after some friends told me abot same problems.
See ya later,


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Postby pranav81 on Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:14 am

Oh Dode,
You can also check the number of sectors written under the Disc Info menu in Roxio EZCD 6's Creator Classic or you can use CloneCD too.


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Postby MediumRare on Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:02 am

Hi Pranav,
I think this "rot" may happen with games that use tricks with the CIRC information as a copy protection (which is of course the raison d'être for CloneCD and co).

But a data disk has an additional level of redundancy on it to avoid reading errors. The only way that information will be lost there is if there's a bad disc somewhere in the copying chain. And can you vouch that there wasn't a dud somewhere in generations 1-10 of your game?

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Postby pranav81 on Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:27 am

Dear MediumRare,
Hi.You may be right there.I didnt think about data CD's.But still the number of sectors is always different.Does this not show that the copy is not "perfect",though it works?


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Postby Han on Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:52 am

I would use ordinary CD/DVD mastering software, i.e. Nero, WinOnCD, CDRWIN, etc. CloneCD, Alcohol 120%, BlindWrite could screw the backup since they do a raw copy. Original CD has errors - by not reading it in raw mode you should get a perfect backup.
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Postby pranav81 on Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:57 am

Dear Han,
Hi.You are right.I use Nero for normal CD copying and CloneCD for copy protected CD's.


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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:57 pm

Han wrote:I would use ordinary CD/DVD mastering software, i.e. Nero, WinOnCD, CDRWIN, etc. CloneCD, Alcohol 120%, BlindWrite could screw the backup since they do a raw copy. Original CD has errors - by not reading it in raw mode you should get a perfect backup.

even if i use something like "Data CD Profile" in CloneCD ?
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Postby MediumRare on Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:05 pm

pranav81 wrote:Dear MediumRare,
Hi.You may be right there.I didnt think about data CD's.But still the number of sectors is always different.Does this not show that the copy is not "perfect",though it works?

Sorry I don't see that either. I don't have many copies flying around, but those data discs that I checked had exactly the same sector count as their parent.

There is one situation where the sector count may vary, though- if you copy an audio CD, there may be a (device dependent) offset to where the drive starts ripping or writing the data. The guys at EAC (Exact Audio Copy) make a big deal out of this. However, if you extract the audio data without loss (using, e.g. EAC) the offset doesn't affect anything except the sector count :wink:. The music is still identical.

By the way, I'm not bothered by the offset because I usually add CD-Text to any music CDs I back up- they're not 1-to-t copies, they're better than the originals. :D

Han has a good point on raw mode!

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Postby pranav81 on Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:12 am

Dear MediumRare,
Hi.I checked the CD's.The sector count seems to vary by only 1 sector.It is always one sector more or 1 sector less,but never same.I use Nero to copy the audio CD's,as I frequently add some effects to the CD's.


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