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SVCD Guide with 99 minute discs is online now...

Burn baby burn!

SVCD Guide with 99 minute discs is online now...

Postby Spazmogen on Wed May 21, 2003 9:20 pm

Dial up users beware! There's lots of pictures.

Best viewed @ 1024 x 768.


http://www.ormsby.ca/spazmogen/svcd/

Crude, but it works.
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Postby Wedge Maniac on Wed May 21, 2003 10:16 pm

Thanks Spazmogen :)
Very nice; will use this.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed May 21, 2003 10:52 pm

Okay, first off I would like to say *VERY GOOD WORK* on the whole, I am impressed with your eye to detail, and the great care you went to, to make it easy to use even for "noobies"

That being said, I have a few suggestions:

1. Include a link to www.doom9.org and/or www.dvdrhelp.com so that people who have not ripped their vob's or are taking a movie from another source will be able to get to the point they need to be in order to use your guide.

2. Though most home unit DVD Players *WILL* play 99min CD-Rs, almost every PC DVD-ROM I've put a 99min CD-R into has utterly failed to read it, regardless of how much was burned on it. You may want to warn people about this

3. I totally disagree that you should burn at 4x. I would never consider burning slower then 12x unless the drive doesn't support a faster speed. Also, some drives can only achieve higher capacties using slower speeds, but with any somewhat recent drive that supports overburning at all, using 4x or even 8x will result in MUCH higher C1/C2 errors. If you don't believe me, burn 2 CD-Rs one at 4x and one at 16x (or 12x) and test them both (using K-Probe or CD Doctor). But here's the catch, test them at *FULL* speed. Testing at full speed will let you know how your discs will perform under regular conditions. Testing at 8x will let you know your chances of recovering the data from your disc.

ok, that last one wasn't really a suggestion...

But like I said, on the whole, a MARVELOUS effort! :D
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby Halc on Thu May 22, 2003 3:22 am

dolphinius_rex,

I think that people should test at a lower speed, because:

A) SVCD discs are read at the nominal speed of 1x/2x (not 48 or 52x) when being played back. So testing at a lower speed gives the number of statistical read errors for the most common read speed that the disc will be used at.

B) Testing at a higher speed is always more a test of the pickup/servo parts of the drive than the disc itself. Regardless of how good a drive, the number of errors goes up if you increase the read speed in c1/c2 test (now assuming only hw supported speed are used). Hence, testing at a higher speed tests more the drive than the disc.

regards,
Halc
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu May 22, 2003 6:10 am

Ok, I'll agree to the first argument but not the second.

Yes, in a lot of cases when you test a CD-R at faster speeds it will show more C1/C2 errors then when it is tested at 8x, but this is not always the case. I have had several discs, from both Taiyo Yuden and Ritek that have not shown any noticable increase in errors at full speed. And I totally disagree with highspeed testing being more of a test for the drive then the media. Yes, the drive's performance can be a major factor for these tests, but it also shows how the media will perform at common use speeds. Say for instance if you are playing MP3 files from your CD-ROM, your drive will spin up and buffer the song into memory and then play it. Of course, this isn't usually the case with most DVD Players (at least not that I know of) which is why I agree with your first point.

I'd also like to say that I'm not trying to be an a$$ here, and I really respect the work you do! especially since it is so similar to my own :D
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
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Postby Spazmogen on Thu May 22, 2003 8:23 am

Thanks for the kind words guys.

dolphinius_rex: links have been added as requested.

My own testing on my LTR-52246S (6S0C firmware) shows I can burn 99 minute discs to full capacity at a maximum of 16x. But several drives had problems reading them (Hitachi DVD player & Creative Labs 6x DVD Rom). When I slowed the burns down, the Hitachi had no trouble at all. If I tried to burn audio or video faster than 16x, the amber light would come on every 30 seconds or so.

Now the Hitachi DVD player was used to test both 100 Minute audio cd's (as was the 6x Creative Labs DVD-Rom). But the Creative Labs drive hates 99 minute DATA discs, but it plays 100 minute audio cd's fine. But it was made in 1998 after all.

So, I can't recommend burning a 99 minute disc (data or audio) faster than 4x. Everyone's rig is different. Give it a try, if it works for you, stick with it.

Not sure if you're getting old? Just check out the title I did in that guide.
Yes, you can tell that one's not for me.

I'm old.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu May 22, 2003 2:36 pm

Spaz: Actually I *DID* notice the title you were working on....

....very..... ......interesting..... :roll:
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
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Postby KCK on Thu May 22, 2003 5:10 pm

Spazmogen:

Concerning the filesizes reported in your guide, note that 98:14.05 yields 863.39 MiB of mode 1 data, and 979.74 MiB of mode 2 XA form 2 data, where Mi = 1048576. (Recall that each sector may have 2048 bytes of mode 1 data, or 2324 bytes of mode 2 XA form 2 data.)

Similarly, 98:19.32 contains 864.17 MiB of mode 1 data, and 980.63 MiB of mode 2 XA form 2 data.

Finally, for 99:00.00 the figures are 870.12 MiB and 987.38 MiB.
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Postby Spazmogen on Thu May 22, 2003 9:23 pm

KCK: Thanks. I was wondering why it was reported differently.

My lack of formal computer training is showing.

I'm self taught.

FDISK & format C: were common commands for me.
e6400 Core 2 Duo @ 2.13ghz
GeForce 7600GT 256mb PCI-e
2gb DDR2 667mhz Patriot ram 1.8v in d/c
Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 F10 BIOS
WD Caviar SE16 250GB SATA300 7200RPM 16MB Buffer
Samsung SATA2 80gb 7200rpm
Samsung SH-S182D 18x DVD burner
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Postby KCK on Thu May 22, 2003 9:55 pm

You are welcome, Spazmogen. My figures were based on (un)educated guesses, since I've not dealt with SVCD discs so far. :oops: But if I decide to burn such discs, I'll teach myself from your guide! :P
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu May 22, 2003 10:51 pm

This is a good site for comparisons of Mode 1 and Mode 2 data on different capacirty CD-Rs. I don't think it says anything that hasn't already been said, but it is a good reference point :D

http://www.divxland.org/eng/mode2cd.htm
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
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