Home News Reviews Forums Shop


Is the Liteon 1653s really **THAT** bad ?

DVD-R/W, DVD+R/RW, DVD-RAM

Is the Liteon 1653s really **THAT** bad ?

Postby DavidI on Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:41 pm

Hi all

Am looking to get a Liteon 1653S 16x DVD and from the reports around the place, it is **apparently** are real turkey / shocker ?

Anyone here have one ?

Does the latest DR16CS0C Firmware of February 4 2005 *fix* things ?

Dave
DavidI
Buffer Underrun
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:50 pm

Postby Gabe on Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:53 am

Hi!

I have the 1653S but I use it mostly for burn-quality-tests, not for burning.

I burned only a few Media with the LiteOn:

Some tests are here:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=18471

New tests:

Sony DVD+R 8x 4,7GB 50er Spindel Karstadt


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:SONY-D11-000]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD+R] - [DVD+R]
Manufacturer Name : [Sony Recording Media Co.]
Manufacturer ID : [SONY]
Media Type ID : [D11]
Product Revision : [Not Specified]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,295,104 Sectors = 4,482.6MB = 4.38GB (4.70GB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

1653S @8x:

ImageThanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

LG 4082 @8x:

ImageThanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting




Nierle DVD-R 4x 4,7GB Reprint Orange


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R:MCC 01RG20 ]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [Mitsubishi Chemical Corp.]
Manufacturer ID : [MCC 01RG20 ]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,298,496 Sectors = 4,489.3MB = 4.38GB (4.71GB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2x , 4x]
[6x And Higher Might Not Always Be Detectable]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]

1653S @4x:

ImageThanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

LG 4082@4x:

ImageThanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting




Hyundai DVD-R 4x 4,7GB 25er Cakebox


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R:SKC Co.,Ltd.]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [SKC Co. Ltd.]
Manufacturer ID : [SKC Co.,Ltd.]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,298,496 Sectors = 4,489.3MB = 4.38GB (4.71GB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2x , 4x]
[6x And Higher Might Not Always Be Detectable]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

1653S @4x:

ImageThanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

Pioneer MCC @4x:

ImageThanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting


It looks not bad, but I heard the problems coming when you burn media @12x or 16x.

Fact is, that the LiteOn burns to long the LeadIn with some media, sometimes it takes over 1 Minute(!!!). And it burns the Sony DVD-R 8x @12x slower than my Pioneer @8x.
WD: WD6400AAKS, WD10EALS, WD20EARS, WD10EALS
Hitachi: 7K1000.B 1 TB, 7K1000.C 1 TB, 7K2000 2TB, 7K3000 2TB
Seagate: ST2000DL003, ST31000528AS
Samsung HD204UI
LG GH-22NS50
Plextor PX 755 1.04
Benq DW 1670 1.03
Optiarc AD 7173A 1.01
Asus DRW 20B1LT 1.00
Gabe
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 10:35 am

Postby Gabe on Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:13 am

New test:

Platinum DVD+R 8x


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:RICOHJPN-R02-003]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc Type : [DVD+R]
Manufacturer ID : [RICOHJPN]
Manufacturer Name : [Ricoh Company Ltd.]
Media Type ID : [R02]
Product Revision : [003]
Disc Application Code : [General Purpose]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x]
Blank Disc Capacity : [Not Supported By Method 2]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
[DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Image


Looks good :)
WD: WD6400AAKS, WD10EALS, WD20EARS, WD10EALS
Hitachi: 7K1000.B 1 TB, 7K1000.C 1 TB, 7K2000 2TB, 7K3000 2TB
Seagate: ST2000DL003, ST31000528AS
Samsung HD204UI
LG GH-22NS50
Plextor PX 755 1.04
Benq DW 1670 1.03
Optiarc AD 7173A 1.01
Asus DRW 20B1LT 1.00
Gabe
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 10:35 am

Re: Is the Liteon 1653s really **THAT** bad ?

Postby Jackass on Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:45 am

DavidI wrote:Hi all

Am looking to get a Liteon 1653S 16x DVD and from the reports around the place, it is **apparently** are real turkey / shocker ?

Dave


If you had asked this question on CD Freaks, you would have been banned for life. :)
Jackass
Buffer Underrun
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 10:13 am

Postby zebraxor on Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:19 am

Interesting little thread.

Whilst some feel I lost the plot long ago (usually those naive enough to be lead down the garden path), it's my strong opinion that LiteOn really never had the DVD-writing plot to begin with.

I was turned from the darkside, to the lightside about a year or so ago. I realised over time that all the problems that I had ever experienced with LiteOn hardware magically went away with each iteration of my new Pioneer hardware. One might say a good friend of mine knocked some sense into me.

I realised quite some time ago that you get what you pay for. I also found out the hard way that Japanese R & D giants become R & D giants for a VERY GOOD reason. A comparatively small TW vendor (in terms of technological outlay and development) cannot compete with the technological breakthroughs of the BIG tech-stakeholders in Japan.

Think what you will about LiteOn...to me - and the market share in this country, it all went down the plughole long ago. You are generally not taken very seriously as a vendor/wholesaler/retailer in Oz if you are seen to be promoting a LiteOn drive as a "quality" product. Once upon a midnight dreary, the department and organisation I work for would have used LiteOn drives in their equipment - now, because of the mission critical nature of the tasks these drives perform, LiteOn drives will no longer suffice.

:roll:

No matter what I say, I am sure there will be people who insist on the use of second rate hardware. Meh. I guess its one of those "learning things". In time, we grow and learn. We look back on our mistakes and become more well rounded people as a result. This was my experience in the migration between LiteOn hardware from LiteOn --> NEC --> Pioneer.
User avatar
zebraxor
Buffer Underrun
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:38 pm

Re: Is the Liteon 1653s really **THAT** bad ?

Postby Wesociety on Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:15 am

Jackass wrote:
DavidI wrote:Hi all

Am looking to get a Liteon 1653S 16x DVD and from the reports around the place, it is **apparently** are real turkey / shocker ?

Dave


If you had asked this question on CD Freaks, you would have been banned for life. :)

I don't think so... :roll:
User avatar
Wesociety
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1234
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:33 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Postby Wesociety on Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:18 am

zebraxor wrote:I realised quite some time ago that you get what you pay for. I also found out the hard way that Japanese R & D giants become R & D giants for a VERY GOOD reason. A comparatively small TW vendor (in terms of technological outlay and development) cannot compete with the technological breakthroughs of the BIG tech-stakeholders in Japan.

I'm suprised that you post such generalizations.
MANY would argue that a certain TW vendor makes better drives than any Japanese company...
User avatar
Wesociety
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1234
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:33 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Is the Liteon 1653s really **THAT** bad ?

Postby Jackass on Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:23 am

Wesociety wrote:
Jackass wrote:
DavidI wrote:Hi all

Am looking to get a Liteon 1653S 16x DVD and from the reports around the place, it is **apparently** are real turkey / shocker ?

Dave


If you had asked this question on CD Freaks, you would have been banned for life. :)

I don't think so... :roll:


You know all too well that CDFreaks is full of censorship. You ARE a moderator there aren't you?
Jackass
Buffer Underrun
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 10:13 am

Postby zebraxor on Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:52 am

Wesociety wrote:I'm suprised that you post such generalizations.
MANY would argue that a certain TW vendor makes better drives than any Japanese company...


Well, we can agree to disagree on that one old man 8).

Reasoning goes into all of this, as stated in the afforementioned post. I work for very large, very critical infrastructure and technology development facilitators, with multinational clients whom are NOT the nicest people to piss off. The reliability of the latest iteration of LiteOn hardware has displeased my employers and created headaches for me. Indirectly, the reliability of LiteOn hardware HAS pissed these very important individuals off. The long and the short of this is, in the field, when there is a war going on - when every second counts and failure of one sector on any given backup medium is not an option - the equipement cannot cut the mustard. In the real world, in an industry where your competitor would no sooner cut you into strips to feed to his stupid little pet poodle, equipment of a proven lower grade cannot be considered. We just don't stand for bullsh*t.

But I digress. It's really important people understand this. We come at this from two TOTALLY different angles. I look at these things from a strictly industrial point of view. I do not consider the other aspects of the drive such as the "fun" factor or the "damn I can use hacked firmware like crazy" factor. I look at reliability, stability, track record and vendor support. I take into account the ability of companies like Pioneer, compared to companies like LiteOn to keep myself and my employers happy, when we have problems. Certainly, when we are unhappy - Pioneer are always HAPPY to provide us with every possible bit of vendor support they can. They go above and beyond the call of duty to keep their corporate clients happy. Did LiteOn do this for us? No....they did not. Did they offer any form of support when batches of their hardware were sent back defective? Nope. Not even a contingency policy/replacement/next day duty cutover. Pioneer does all this for us - and more. Granted, these services come at a price.

I guess the reality is, we argue about two totally differing things here. One is an industrial world and one is the enthusiasts market. Pricepoints may be the same - but in corporate markets, SLA's are a totally different kettle of fish.

Maybe never the twain shall meet? :)
Last edited by zebraxor on Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
zebraxor
Buffer Underrun
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:38 pm

Postby alexnoe on Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:12 am

I once asked Pioneer if they'd fix the problem that their older drives cannot read non-bitsetted DVD+R DL, and these d0rks told me to use DVD- instead.... nice support :) That was more than half a year ago
alexnoe
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:31 am

Postby Gabe on Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:21 am

Wesociety wrote:
I'm suprised that you post such generalizations.
MANY would argue that a certain TW vendor makes better drives than any Japanese company...



I hope you don´t think LiteOn...

I have one, it seems not to be better than Pioneer (had Pioneer, too)
WD: WD6400AAKS, WD10EALS, WD20EARS, WD10EALS
Hitachi: 7K1000.B 1 TB, 7K1000.C 1 TB, 7K2000 2TB, 7K3000 2TB
Seagate: ST2000DL003, ST31000528AS
Samsung HD204UI
LG GH-22NS50
Plextor PX 755 1.04
Benq DW 1670 1.03
Optiarc AD 7173A 1.01
Asus DRW 20B1LT 1.00
Gabe
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 10:35 am

Postby Bhairav on Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:54 pm

Zebra and Wes, can we take the arguments down a notch? Thanks.
Q6600@3.1Ghz | Asus P5Q-E | 4GB DDR2-800 | 8800GT | 4TB HDD | Viewsonic vx2025wm
Xonar DX | Pioneer DVR-212 | Pioneer 111L | Benq 1655
User avatar
Bhairav
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1239
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 5:44 am
Location: Bombay,India

Postby Wesociety on Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:18 pm

@Jackass, I'm no LiteOn fan, and yes I am a CDfreaks Moderator.

@Zebra, I'm no old man... yet :P
I suppose my post was off-topic from this thread, because it really had nothing to do with LiteOn at all...
I was trying to make the point that many people think that it is not as simple as "Japanese make better DVD writers than Taiwanese".

@Gabe, no I was not referring to LiteOn.

@Bhairav, the only argument I posted, was in response to Jackass...
User avatar
Wesociety
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1234
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:33 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Postby zebraxor on Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:33 pm

Hehehe.

/me throws a wheelchair at Wes. I hear Florida is nice this time of year. LOL.

8)
User avatar
zebraxor
Buffer Underrun
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:38 pm

Postby Gabe on Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:13 am

Wesociety wrote:
@Gabe, no I was not referring to LiteOn.



Benq?
WD: WD6400AAKS, WD10EALS, WD20EARS, WD10EALS
Hitachi: 7K1000.B 1 TB, 7K1000.C 1 TB, 7K2000 2TB, 7K3000 2TB
Seagate: ST2000DL003, ST31000528AS
Samsung HD204UI
LG GH-22NS50
Plextor PX 755 1.04
Benq DW 1670 1.03
Optiarc AD 7173A 1.01
Asus DRW 20B1LT 1.00
Gabe
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 10:35 am

Postby RJW on Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:23 am

Wesociety wrote:
I'm suprised that you post such generalizations.
MANY would argue that a certain TW vendor makes better drives than any Japanese company...



Your right twice.
A there is a taiwanese companny makeing a better drive then most of it's Japanese competition. Also there is a european vendor also produceing a better drive then most of it's japanese competition. Ohh ehh the hardwares is the same.

B you can allready see the people argueing.

To gabe.
To me Benq is ahead I don't know if Wesociety thinks the same but I think you probally got the right one there.
And the european I refered to is Philips offcourse.
RJW
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: The netherlands

Postby jase on Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:16 am

Has to be said though that the only reason Benq is in the position it's in is because it has the backing of a major multinational (Philips) and that is the only reason it can compete. One day, there will be a Taiwanese major who can compete with the Japanese on an even playing field, but the TW companies are too small at present, and either rely on assistance (Benq), or produce relatively inferior product (LiteOn).

In any case, (in my experience anyway) Benq/Philips still have major issues with media compatibility, which shows that their product is still not as flexible as the Japanese stuff. And Philips gear is notoriously unreliable -- their CE DVD recorders have a lamentable record, and their general build quality can be very poor indeed -- same as the other remaining European major Thomson. I therefore still don't think Philips/Benq are quite as good as some of the Japanese manufacturers. Philips are great at developing new ideas, but their basic R&D is lacking. They've even resorted to selling rebadged LiteOn CE DVD recorders (and some more from an unknown Korean outfit) due to their inability to be competitively-priced and reliable at the same time. This, from the main developer of one of the competing DVD writing formats? Please.

In the meantime though, so what if Benq are producing a decent drive. If some nasty little backwater Chinese company was to start making Pioneers under licence, they'd be making good drives as well, but it doesn't alter the fact that they wouldn't have a clue how to make a decent unit if Pioneer hadn't got involved.
jase
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 965
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 8:00 pm

Postby Gabe on Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:18 am

New scans with:

Primedisc DVD+R 8x 4,7 GB


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:RITEK-R03-002]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD+R] - [DVD+R]
Manufacturer Name : [Ritek Corp.]
Manufacturer ID : [RITEK]
Media Type ID : [R03]
Product Revision : [002]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,295,104 Sectors = 4,482.6MB = 4.38GB (4.70GB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

1653S:

Image

Pioneer MCC:

Image



The Ritek´s DVD+R 8x seem to be not good media. The PIF are low, but the PI are to high, I guess. Had sometimes better results with Infosmart DVD-R 4x.
WD: WD6400AAKS, WD10EALS, WD20EARS, WD10EALS
Hitachi: 7K1000.B 1 TB, 7K1000.C 1 TB, 7K2000 2TB, 7K3000 2TB
Seagate: ST2000DL003, ST31000528AS
Samsung HD204UI
LG GH-22NS50
Plextor PX 755 1.04
Benq DW 1670 1.03
Optiarc AD 7173A 1.01
Asus DRW 20B1LT 1.00
Gabe
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 10:35 am

Postby spryfly on Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:00 am

Is the Liteon 1653s really **THAT** bad ?

for burning dvd's.....yes :wink:
"Why? Said the spry little fly."

Nec 3500 LD V2 B6 Quiet
Benq 1620 B7T9 Stock
Liteon 1633sx BS41 Patched for 12x DL Ripping
User avatar
spryfly
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:36 am
Location: The Spider's Web

Postby RJW on Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:01 pm

jase wrote:Has to be said though that the only reason Benq is in the position it's in is because it has the backing of a major multinational (Philips) and that is the only reason it can compete. One day, there will be a Taiwanese major who can compete with the Japanese on an even playing field, but the TW companies are too small at present, and either rely on assistance (Benq), or produce relatively inferior product (LiteOn).


Don't forget Lite On has back -up from SONY.
Samsung from Toshiba.
Benq/ACER also from Pioneer.
Aopen from RICOH
BTC from TEAC
LIte ON from TEAC

I can make this list much longer.

I therefore still don't think Philips/Benq are quite as good as some of the Japanese manufacturers. Philips are great at developing new ideas, but their basic R&D is lacking.


1st take a look arround you might not think so but look at all facts. No drive is perfect. Some are more as others.NEC, Benq/Philips, Plextor do come close on some points but fail on others. Benq/PHilips support seems to be much more open to suggestions as the competitions. SO if you got some points about mayor issues contact them about it and they will see what they can fix.


Also basic R&D is not really the problem. Marketing and management and economics are.
And while the're aware of a lot of things they still seem to be incapable of fixing things.


They've even resorted to selling rebadged LiteOn CE DVD recorders (and some more from an unknown Korean outfit) due to their inability to be competitively-priced and reliable at the same time. This, from the main developer of one of the competing DVD writing formats? Please.

So what do big japanese compannies like SONY and Pioneer and Toshiba and many other japanese compannies do like I allready posted above. So why may Philips not do what a large part of the japanese compannies does ?
I know that when Philips is launching some cheap ass product you get junk. Trust me I owned a Philips 3610 (Philips attempt to make a very cheap cd-writer costing just the half of the competition.) However when the prices are normal quality is ok. Higher then normal then build (most times this means that you got some brand new stuff) quality is better as ok.

In the meantime though, so what if Benq are producing a decent drive. If some nasty little backwater Chinese company was to start making Pioneers under licence, they'd be making good drives as well, but it doesn't alter the fact that they wouldn't have a clue how to make a decent unit if Pioneer hadn't got involved.

Bad example since Benq/Acer also makes drives for Pioneer allready.

So if you looked arround you would know that all drive have issues.
Really. For each weakness you put up for Benq/Philips I can give you back some other one on the companny you really like and it doesn't matter if it's Plextor or Pioneer or Mashushite or LG or Toshiba or NEC.
Still no one can make the perfect drive. It's like I said some do get close on some fronts.
RJW
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: The netherlands

Postby Scour on Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:41 pm

RJW wrote:

Benq/ACER also from Pioneer.

BTC from TEAC




BTC and Teac? The newer Teac-drives are from Liteon, Pioneer or Ultima, I think?

Which Pioneer drives is made by Benq?
Benq DW 1640, LG GH-20N, Pioneer BDR-208
Crucial M4, Sandisk SSD, Plextor M5S, Sandisk Ultra Plus, OCZ Petrol 256GB

cu
Scour
Scour
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1909
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Germany

Postby RJW on Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:43 am

Will have to look up but Pioneers DVD-roms are Acer/Benq made these days and also there are version of the Pioneer 106D (Which orriginally had a slightly differnt firmware ) Some of the Pioneer 107D were produced at Benq. 108 and 109 seem to be made by Pioneer only. That might be because pioneer own popularity is getting smaller. The 106/107 deal was done because Pioneer could sell more drives as they could produce themselves at the time. ABout the specific model I think digitimes mentioned about it a few weeks ago (probally halfway January). Cdfreaks, Cdrlabs and cdrinfo reported about that one.

Teac does a lot of busines with different manufacturers. It's more like each model is from a different source. I do have to say that the name Lite On keeps comming back. I chose this old combination (Was I think the 48x burner) to put some taiwanese brand with a not so good reputation in combination with a japanese brand with a excellent reputation.

Let me say this:
These days compannies can work on one level very close together why on another level they are each other biggest competition and can't stand each other.
RJW
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: The netherlands


Return to DVD Writers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

All Content is Copyright (c) 2001-2017 CDRLabs Inc.