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I thought LiteOn drives were supposed to be media-friendly?

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I thought LiteOn drives were supposed to be media-friendly?

Postby jase on Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:44 pm

Well mine certainly isn't. It's a 48246S, and I have not been able to find a single disc manufacturer that it's been able to write at full speed. They write, but either the burn slows towards the end, there are C2 errors toward the end of the disc or the burn fails altogether.

Can someone recommend a good type of disc for this drive? As it stands it's hopeless. MSI, Aopen and Cyberdrive seem better than this pile of old junk? Faulty drive maybe?

I dunno, I've had 4 LiteOn drives, and I haven't been happy with any of them to be honest. The 12102B was exceedingly picky with media. The 24102B wrote anything but the resulting discs were often not readable by picky players where other writers' burns worked fine. This 48246S just doesn't seem to work correctly. Why do people like these drives? The number of people who have sent me discs written on LiteOns that don't work properly as well....
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Postby Raz0rX on Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:04 pm

I use Plasmon CDR, can burn them @ 48x max @ the end. I haven't run any WSES testings but just use the error testing feature in Nero CDSpeed, occassionally with one or two errors on the burnt CD.
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Postby jase on Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:09 pm

Well Raz0rX, if I had one or two errors (C2 errors I'm guessing here, yeah?) I'd class that as a bad burn. The write must be perfect as far as I am concerned.

There is something definitely not right though. If the burn slows down there's often errors even on the 24x-burned section. I just don't understand ir :(
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Postby glock20rocks on Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:16 pm

Welcome to the club! :(
I've had the same problems with my 48125W. Try Fuji 24x/40x rated discs (not the 48x rated ones). They burned at 40x on my drive w/o any errors.
Or, do what I did: Get a Plextor.
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Postby jase on Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:20 pm

I think I know what the problem is now!!!

If I burn at 24x, 32x, 40x, the burn is fine.

If I burn at 48x, or 52x when the drive is overclocked, towards the end of the burn SMARTBurn starts kicking in periodically (a problem I'm having with this PC, it's too slow for the LiteOn although it works fine with other 48x drives). Once this has kicked in a few times there are C2 errors at some of the points where the recording has stopped.

Seems that either this particular drive is bad, or the SMARTBurn just isn't doing the job.

EDIT: This is weird actually. Sequence of events go as follows:

1) Write CD at 32x. Writes with no errors or slowdowns. Read back using CD Doctor at 48x, very low C1 errors.

2) Write CD at 40x, fine again. Reads again with low C1 errors.

3) Write at 48x, Burnproof kicks in at approx 40 minutes, at this point C2 errors all over the place.

4) Write a CD at 40x again, resulting CDR is bad :? Why?????

5) Write a CD using a different drive, read in with the LiteOn again, fine.

6) Go back to step (1).

Quite bizarre. Anyone have any clues??
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Postby Raz0rX on Sun Jan 19, 2003 9:42 pm

For some reason, CD Doctor doesn't seem to run. The status bar just says measuring C1/C2 but the drive isn't doing anything (not even spinning or reading). I believe I have the proper ASPI driver setup though.

Mine drive is same as Jase.
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Postby cfitz on Sun Jan 19, 2003 9:47 pm

What ASPI layer do you have installed, and what version?

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Postby jase on Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:06 pm

If CD Doctor won't work (I've had problems on one of my machines) you could always try WSES. It's DOS based so there's no nasty driver issues to worry about ;)

I'm starting to think my problem is something to do with power. This drive seems to be drawing a LOT of current according to my multimeter :/

Is it safe to run a second PSU in parallel with the one in the case? Or would the floating ground supplies interfere with each other?
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Postby cfitz on Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:57 pm

jase wrote:I'm starting to think my problem is something to do with power. This drive seems to be drawing a LOT of current according to my multimeter :/

Out of curiousity, how much current on each rail?

jase wrote:Is it safe to run a second PSU in parallel with the one in the case? Or would the floating ground supplies interfere with each other?

What do you mean by parallel? If you mean hooking the outputs of both supplies to the same bus, then the answer is no. Only specially designed power supply systems can safely do that. If you mean use one power supply to power the motherboard, for example, and another to power the drives, then yes it can be done. Make sure to tie the black common leads from the two supplies together at one point so that they share a common voltage reference if they aren't already tied to earth ground. And make sure each supply is sufficiently loaded. Switching power supplies often require a minimum load in order to properly regulate the output voltages. Also, make sure there aren't any hidden back-door paths (e.g. +5 V lines on signal connectors) that would connect the power rails of the two supplies together. Finally, be aware that your chances of running into electrical interference/noise issues running two power supplies is probably increased. Returning current may have to take circuitous routes to complete the circuit, leading to large loop areas and their inherent susceptibility to generating and receiving electrical noise.

I really think you would be better off upgrading to a beefier power supply if you are running low on power. I seem to recall you recently posting that you have a 200 W power supply in your system. That is small if you have a lot of peripherals hooked up, and you can easily replace it with a 350-400 W supply.

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Postby hoxlund on Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:21 am

you guys have no idea how to use computer's, man my LTR-48125W works like a champ, burns at 48x with Memorex TY 48x, no errors, 100% correct with scandisc

also why would you overclock your burner, that can be the cause of your problems
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Postby TheWizard on Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:39 am

hoxlund wrote:you guys don't know how to use computer's


Not a good way to start a sentence, hoxlund. :roll:
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Postby vinnie97 on Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:56 am

you misquoted :oops: :lol:
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Postby jase on Mon Jan 20, 2003 6:04 am

Out of curiousity, how much current on each rail?


Normally well below 1A on both lines, but occasionally the 12V line is peaking at around 2-2.5A, usually when the drive is writing quickly toward the end of the burn. Given that the rated current for drives like this is only 1.5A that's worrying.

TBH I think you're right about running two power supplies, too much hassle really. I was aware of the potential problems but just asked the question to see if I was making something out of nothing. I'll try the drive in a stripped down system with a 300W PSU then if it works better there I'll invest in a 400W branded power supply. I have been noticing that the Aopen 48x occasionally causes the HDD to 'trip up' every so often when it's reading at full 50x speed, as if the HDD isn't getting enough power any more. But curiously, the PSU isn't running warm.
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Postby jase on Mon Jan 20, 2003 6:31 am

Just out of interest, I mentioned a branded PSU, but an online retailer is doing unbranded 400W PSUs for a reasonable price...

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products ... _uid=30288

But I have heard that these cheap PSUs are not as efficient as the proper ones. Is there any compelling justification for spending 4x as much for an Antec supply?
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Postby Spazmogen on Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:23 am

Media: Which brands and speed rating are they?
Are you trying to burn a 32x disc @ 52x without error ? ( I'm just using 32x as a possible example). If you're trying to burn a slower rated disc at full speed, and it suddenly slows down burning at the outer 1/3 of the disc, then this is normal. Smart Burn IS doing it's job. It senses the disc can't take the full speed and slows down accordingly. You can disable Smart Burn in Nero (Recorder>Chose Recorder>remove check mark for Smart Burn. You're taking chances on quality when you disable it...

Also, if the contents you're burning are small files (like thousands of .jpeg images) you'll probably never get full 52x speed. I can't do it with the LTR-52246s @ 52x with all .jpegs I can do it @ 32x (100% fine), 40x is pushing it, the amber light may come on briefly but the burns still test out 100%. The jpegs are scattered all over my HDD and there's too much seeking/reading going on to maintain a 52x speed. This is on a 7200rpm ATA66 drive. If I have a few big files like DivX movies or Norton Ghost image files, I hit 52x everytime. I recommend Verbatim 48x (Super Azo) DataLifePlus discs. Flawless @ 52x in all 6 I've burnt so far.

Power supplies: I recommend Enermax (get the dual exhaust fan models with auto fan speed control). Enermax has 8 IDE drive power leads, so no need to Y adapter a power line. I have a 350w Enermax, 3 HDD's, 1 burner & 1 DVD Rom, 3 80mm case fans + 2 80mm fans in the PSU itself. I have no power problems at all. Nothing is overclocked either.


As for Lite On's being Media Friendly, mine seems to be. Smart Burn does kick in for me too on occasion, but the burn is usually 100% in CD Speed testing.

I hope this helps.


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Postby jase on Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:40 am

Thanks. SMARTBurn only seems to slow down though after the event sadly (ie just after there's an unreadable bit on the disc, so it's a bit pointless really), and it seems to be immediately after the buffer-underrun protection has stopped the burn for a few seconds that the write goes wrong. So yes, it may be down to inferior media, but when it starts doing it with TDK 48x media as well you have to wonder :(

As for PSUs does this one look like the supply you mention:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/products/module ... modulecode

Going on a special offer at present. Looks like a good'un ;) Thing is this PSU might not be much more expensive than the other one, as Maplin do free shipping on orders over £30... OK this is £29.99 but I'm sure I'll be able to find something for a few pennies to make it up.
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Postby MediumRare on Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:46 am

I have an LTR 48246S and have had good results with various media. The TDK 40-rated (Ritek) are awesome- burned at 48x and average C1 error (CD-Doctor) of 0.1- there are next to no spikes showing. MMORE (MBI) also work fine at 48x.

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Postby Spazmogen on Mon Jan 20, 2003 10:06 am

Image


http://www.enermax.com.tw/product-01.htm

I've got the EG365P-VE FM 350w supply. If you're looking for a 450w supply, try the EG465P-VE FM.

The link to the one you posted looks similar, but I wonder how it performs.

Image

Media: my 1st try with 48x Fuji (TY) failed @ 48x with a disc of .jpeg images. There were too many errors for my use. I find it really depends on the content being burned too. In some cases, slower is better, even with higher speed discs and drives. Audio being a case in point.
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Postby hoxlund on Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:17 pm

The Antec 430 True Watt Power Supply is available at Best Buy for $99, or $64.55 for employee discount

Newegg.com also sells that same one for $85, includes shipping
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Postby cfitz on Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:51 pm

vinnie97 wrote:you misquoted :oops: :lol:

No. Hoxlund edited after TheWizard quoted. That's why the little message about "number of times edited" shows up in the posts - its a little bit of repudiation protection.

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Postby cfitz on Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:22 pm

jase wrote:
Out of curiousity, how much current on each rail?


Normally well below 1A on both lines, but occasionally the 12V line is peaking at around 2-2.5A, usually when the drive is writing quickly toward the end of the burn. Given that the rated current for drives like this is only 1.5A that's worrying.


Do you have a clamp-on ammeter? I'd like to measure mine so I could compare notes with you, but I don't have a clamp-on accessory and don't feel like hacking my harness to put my multimeter in series.

Anyway, if you are seeing related issues with the AOpen as well, then it certainly does sound like power may be the problem. As for not running particularly hot, a good switching supply, due to its high efficiency, won't necessarily run really hot at full load. That's one of the several advantages of switching supplies over linear supplies.

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Postby vinnie97 on Mon Jan 20, 2003 4:36 pm

No. Hoxlund edited after TheWizard quoted. That's why the little message about "number of times edited" shows up in the posts - its a little bit of repudiation protection


Sorry, I overlooked the small print.
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Postby jase on Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:39 pm

Do you have a clamp-on ammeter?


No. I was diagnosing problems a couple of years back with this PSU and attached plugs/sockets to the wires going to one of the HDD/CD connectors. Not too difficult then to just shove the multimeter probes into that.

But anyways, I think this drive is trying to take the p*ss out of me :lol: I've found a media type that works at 52x overclocked, with no issues and a frankly astounding C1 error rate of average 0.158, max 6. That's a ridiculously low figure.

And what did I get this remarkable result with? Ritek media, Precision (Memorex) branded. But get this -- 24x rated. Work that one out.
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Postby cfitz on Mon Jan 20, 2003 10:46 pm

jase wrote:I've found a media type that works at 52x overclocked, with no issues and a frankly astounding C1 error rate of average 0.158, max 6. That's a ridiculously low figure.

Maybe we will bring you around yet? :wink: :)

I know, from my own experience, that the LTR-48246S is capable of extremely good burn quality. Here is an example from my drive:

Image

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Postby jase on Tue Jan 21, 2003 12:56 pm

Yup. Well if it can do the job with Ritek media then I'm happy. I'll have to get some samples of different media types. I'm just a little disappointed that it makes quite such a pig's ear of lower-speed media -- although that may have other underlying causes.

I've done a test write of this 24x media on other 40x/48x/52x writers and all write to it at full speed with no errors. If Ritek could only keep this level of quality up all the time I'd be happy. I have to say though that the LiteOn does seem to have the best write quality of all of them at this speed. We're averaging ~3C1 on the MSI, ~1.1 on the Aopen 48x, ~1.2 on the Aopen/Artec 40x, ~0.8 at 52x on the Artec 52x. None of those are exactly bad, it has to be said ;)
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