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Using Thermal Grease with AMD Processors Voids Warranties

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Using Thermal Grease with AMD Processors Voids Warranties

Postby Inertia on Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:34 am

See Thermal Grease Use Voids AMD Warranty.

This includes Arctic Silver. :cry:
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Postby CDRecorder on Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:16 am

That's terrible! :evil: :evil: :evil: I like using silver thermal grease to keep my Athlon cooler. It probably runs between 5 and 10 degrees C cooler (with the same heatsink) than it did with the heatsink's thermal pad. The silver grease also isn't as messy when the heatsink is removed.
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Postby CDRecorder on Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:17 am

BTW, what is this "grease pump-out" thing that the article linked to above is talking about?
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Postby vbl117 on Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:35 am

Thanks Inertia . AMD is disappointing me . This policy is not realistic .
If they want to keep being credible they 'll have to change their mind .
Now that some customers know these facts the'll be able to defend themselves by all means against this absurd policy .
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Postby cfitz on Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:10 am

LiteOnGuy wrote:BTW, what is this "grease pump-out" thing that the article linked to above is talking about?

Repeated expansion and contraction due to thermal cycling causes the grease to squeeze out from between the chip and the heatsink. This causes problems because the grease isn't where it is supposed to be and is where it isn't supposed to be, causing damage due to overheating or potentially (no pun intended :wink: ), in the case of electrically conductive grease, shorting.

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Postby tazdevl on Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:57 am

LOL, well all I have to say is that if you put so much thermal grease on your CPU so that it oozes over the sides of the package and shorts it out, you're too stupid to own a PC and deserve to not have your warranty honored.

If you put a bit on one corner of the die and spread it across with a credit card or razor, it's more than sufficient. You just need a tiny bit, not half the tube. If the surface of the heatsink isn't smooth and you aren't in the mood to spend 30 minutes lapping it, do the same for it. Best thing is that you won't get "thermal pump"... ha that sounds mildly pornographic. :D

For those of you that do things correctly, isopropyl... or nail polish remover then an isopropyl bath will take care of things.

AMD has probably begun to look at the number and characteristics of their RMAs, not to mention the costs associated with them. If you bork your chip because you don't know how to OC, you should have to pay for a new CPU.

I applaud it, this isn't a european or korean subsidized corporation that doesn't have to worry about costs, they're in it to make money. AMD shouldn't have to pay for people's mistakes that don't know what they're doing.
Last edited by tazdevl on Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cfitz on Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:15 pm

tazdevl wrote:LOL, well all I have to say is that if you put so much thermal grease on your CPU so that it oozes over the sides of the package and shorts it out, you deserve to not have your warranty not honored.

The following are examples of wild excess, not "thermal pumping", but do illustrate that there are morons who think more is better:

Image

Image

These pictures are from http://web.tampabay.rr.com/jguru/mishaps/, where you can find many more examples of bone-headed moves perpetrated by idiots who then try to return their mistakes for refund or replacement.

tazdevl wrote:If you bork your chip because you don't know how to OC, you should have to pay for a new CPU ... I applaud it ... AMD shouldn't have to pay for people's mistakes that don't know what they're doing.

I agree. People should be responsible for their own actions, particularly since AMD doesn't pay for those mistakes if AMD replaces those fried CPU's. You and I pay for it through increased prices on the CPU's we buy and don't fry. It is a shame, though, that the jerks of the world who can't be bothered to take care of things properly and then try to scam others into bailing them out their messes end up making it tough on people who act responsibly but run into the occasional random failure.

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Postby CDRecorder on Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:33 pm

I agree that people should be responsible for their mistakes, but I think that voiding all warranties where thermal grease is used is too extreme.
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Postby tazdevl on Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:48 pm

LiteOnGuy wrote:I agree that people should be responsible for their mistakes, but I think that voiding all warranties where thermal grease is used is too extreme.


As I said, if you OC and bork it or put too much thermal grease on and bork it, it's your fault and AMD shouldn't warranty the CPU. I'd bet that's over 90% of the RMAs AMD receives, the others are probably from OEMs which generally don't come direct from the consumer and use an AMD approved thermal grease. We, being the enthusiast market, are the only folks that would use AS anyway.

If you are an individual with some integrity and honor... not OC'ing your CPU and it fails, but are using AS... I don't see an issue.

Bottom line though is that if you do OC your CPU and run it @ an out of spec voltage, you are going to shorten it's life and shouldn't be surprised when it dies.
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Postby vbl117 on Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:42 pm

I don' t agree . A CPU can fail for many reasons . I guess very few people put a lot of thermal grease on their CPU ( there is always very few pigs , indeed ) . And some people use thermal grease to improve cooling efficiency without overclocking .

In all cases discuss about this is useless because removing the thermal grease after a disaster is so easy ... ( even pigs are able to do this )

I use thermal grease like you . I make little overclocking at my own risk ( i don't care if my processor is guaranteed or not because i will not return the processor if it dies ) for fun and because my processor is very old ( Duron 750 ) .

I hope AMD has other methods to know if a processor has been overclocked than searching for thermal grease . This is a bit ridiculous .

I agree only with you to say that processor's manufacturers are right when they refuse to warrant an overclocked processor or a processor who died because too many thermal grease was applied ( when u mount a processor u have to be serious ) .
I am sad because AMD has not a good economical health . It would be a real disaster if AMD "died" .
Hoping AMD will survive ( and find realistic ways to find the cheaters and the morons ) .
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Postby Kennyshin on Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:49 pm

AMD is still at war with South Korean consumers. They lied. They stole. They threatened.

From late 2000 to the end of 2001, I have only bought AMD. I bought several AMD Athlon Thunderbird and Palomino processors.

From 2002 to now, I have only bought Intel. I bought several Willamette and Northwood processors.

Is HP acquiring AMD? I once hoped VIA or TSMC would do.
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Postby vbl117 on Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:51 pm

tazdevl wrote:If you are an individual with some integrity and honor... not OC'ing your CPU and it fails, but are using AS... I don't see an issue.
.


How can you differentiate the cheater/moron and the honest ( not overclocking , only using very few paste ) ? In both cases AMD 'll see that there is thermal paste on the CPU , and they'll act as if the processor had been overclocked ( i guess that's why Liteonguy was worrying ) .
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Postby vbl117 on Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:55 pm

Kennyshin wrote:AMD is still at war with South Korean consumers. They lied. They stole. They threatened.
.


Could you be more accurate or give some links ?
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Postby burninfool on Mon Apr 28, 2003 5:44 pm

If you overclock you are a bork.
Bork\boarq\ n [L] :a boneheaded dork.
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Postby Turkeyscore.com on Mon Apr 28, 2003 6:07 pm

hmmm, AMD seems to be getting worse and worse in my opinion. They used to be better priced than intel but now if you want to get a comparable processor to a P4 you have to spend more. Via will probably pass amd at this rate :P
The thermal paste thing probably wont help business much either.
zzzt *pop*
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Postby CowboySlim on Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:47 pm

OK, Buckaroos, it's question time again!

Now we've been told to use the packaged "phase change" pad instead of thermal grease. Now I thought that I understood phase change media and how it worked. However, I don't understand its intended function as applied between the mis-named heatsink/fan component and the CPU.

After you check my profile and accept its veracity, you may think that I have posed a facetious question. Trust me, it is not.

Inquisitively yours,
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Who really thinks that AMDs usage of "phase change" is another marketing ploy misnomer.
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Postby cfitz on Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:57 pm

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Postby CDRecorder on Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:12 am

As you stated above Tazdvl, I wouldn't expect AMD or anyone else to take back a CPU that I overclocked or ruined by using thermal grease. I personally use thermal grease even though I am running within spec because I like to keep my processor very cool (that would explain the 3 case fans in that computer too, I guess). When I use thermal grease, I put a tiny amount on the core and spread it around in a very thin layer; I don't smear it all over the chip in a thick layer.
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Postby CowboySlim on Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:56 am

OK, cfitz,

Those references have the correct answer. In the meantime, I was coming to that exact conclusion, and that information is corroborative.

When we generally talk about a phase change as a thermal solution, we are talking about freezing-melting or evaporating-condensing, where the former is a phase change between solid and liquid states and the latter is between liquid and gaseous states. For water, freezing or melting is about 100 btus/lb and for evaporating or condensing about 1000 btus/lb. That is why ice keeps BuddahTB's Slurpy about 32 deg F, the melting point, until it is all melted and his Slurpy then warms up.

So the heat that is absorbed by a material while it melts, formally called the heat of fusion, as a cooling solution for CPUs didn't make sense to me in that context. It is a highly transient effect - after all how long would an ice cube last next to a gaming AMD CPU (and a typical ice cube has probably 100 times the heat (fusion) capacity of the thermal pads)? Not very long.

So as the sources that you have so thoughtfully provided indicate, the thermal benefit is one of aiding heat transfer as opposed to being a heat absorber as melting ice is. As it melts the stuff in the thermal pad becomes soft and pliable and conforms into the microscopic voids and surface imperfections. As such it replaces any trapped air and being more thermally conductive than air, overall heat transfer is augmented.

Thanks, cfitz,
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Postby cfitz on Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:09 am

You're welcome, CowboySlim.

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Postby vbl117 on Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:39 am

burninfool wrote:If you overclock you are a bork.
Bork\boarq\ n [L] :a boneheaded dork.


The fact is if you make a reasoned overclocking u are forced to learn/know more things on CPU .

I am not like some people that overclock like mad their new processors without knowing something and expecting if the CPU dies they still will have a warranty .

My little brother had in the past lowered the CPU voltage ( family computer ) to lower the energy consumption ( he wanted to be a software engineer but was knowing nothing about hardware and he did something REALLY stupid ) .
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