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Verbatim 32x CD-RW Test Results

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Verbatim 32x CD-RW Test Results

Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:27 am

Well, they finally cam in! So now I can share my results with everyone :D

Sadly, my LG 8525B drive died during a firmware update, so I'm stuck with only my Plextor Premium for testing. So here are my current results. More will be posted as I do more testing.

The discs being tested are the following:

Drive Type = CD-RW
Disc Type = ULTRA SPEED CD-RW 32X
Material = Phase Change
Lead In = 97:34:25
Lead Out = 74:43:00
Nominal Capacity = 656.40MB
Manufacturer Maybe = Mitsubishi Chemicals Corporation
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 32X (Write)

All burning was done on the Plextor Premium. All K-Probe scans were done at 40x on my LiteON 48125W. The CD Speed scandisc test was done on my Plextor Premium drive. So now without further adieu, the results!

Image

Code: Select all
32x CD-RW #1 First Burn: Burned on Plextor Premium - 3:24
All Green in CD Speed


**Full Erase**



Image

Code: Select all
32x CD-RW #1 Second Burn: Burned on Plextor Premium - 3:21
All Green in CD Speed


**Quick Erase**

Image

Code: Select all
32x CD-RW #1 Third Burn: Burned on Plextor Premium - 3:25
All Green in CD Speed


**Full Erase**

Image

Code: Select all
32x CD-RW #1 Fourth Burn: Burned on Plextor Premium - 3:30
All Green in CD Speed


**Quick Erase**

Image

Code: Select all
32x CD-RW #1 Fifth Burn: Burned on Plextor Premium - 3:08
All Green in CD Speed


Sadly, like Aviationwiz, I have very little to judge by, since I think it would be hardly fair to compare CD-RWs to regular CD-Rs... These results are open to interpretation, so feel free to discuss :wink:

Please note, all this testing was done on a single disc. More disc's testing will follow. The next test I will do will be a test against the cascade effect on these discs. I will be using a brand new CD-RW for the testing.

I hope people find these tests helpful. When I'm done, I'll post something on my webpage :D [/u]
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Postby MediumRare on Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:19 am

DR- what burning strategy does the Plextor use @32x? There are noticeable steps at ca. 14 min on all scans and at ca. 10 min for all except the virgin disc. Does it drop the recording speed there?

The C1 values are a lot higher than what I see for 24x Ultraspeeds on my LTR48246S (but it only does 24x at CAV :( ). I'm seeing C1 ave 10-20 (depends) and max < 200.

I'm looking forward to more results.

G
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:27 am

From watching the burn I would have to say it is a P-CAV burning strategy, but I will have to run a CD Speed burn test to make sure. I'll do that after work today and post the results.
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Re: Verbatim 32x CD-RW Test Results

Postby RJW on Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:28 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:Well, they finally cam in! So now I can share my results with everyone :D

Sadly, my LG 8525B drive died during a firmware update, so I'm stuck with only my Plextor Premium for testing. So here are my current results. More will be posted as I do more testing.


Never flash a LG yourself I think that was a rule ! If you want a newer firmware then just trash it a bit. Normally I wouldn't do this but since LG is so lame with there firmware support: They actually ask for it.

By the way the quality ieven more terrible as my old Lite On 48246S and 52327S peform with rewritable media.
With the old Plextor 24/10/40A I get for Verbatim(mcc) media 2-4x or 4x-10x which are unused or just quick errased results which could match cd-r's. (avg 0.35-5)
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Postby aviationwiz on Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:27 pm

It took the Canadian Post Long Enough!
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Postby aviationwiz on Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:30 pm

MediumRare wrote:DR- what burning strategy does the Plextor use @32x?


P-CAV. See my thread, here:
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=14391
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Postby MediumRare on Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:16 am

aviationwiz wrote:
MediumRare wrote:DR- what burning strategy does the Plextor use @32x?


P-CAV. See my thread, here:
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=14391

Right- you did post the transfer rate. The funny jump in C1 shows up there too and doesn't correlate with the transition to CLV at 23 min. Looks like there's some running OPC going on. It might be worth watching Nero's write speed during an actual burn until it maxes out to rule out a jump during an actual burn.

Also, it'd be interesting to see how this media does at 24x.

G
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:58 am

The plextor Premium can only burn this media at 1 speed... 32x :( that's why I wanted the LG burner for testing too... but it's kind of dead for the moment :evil:
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Postby aviationwiz on Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:30 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:that's why I wanted the LG burner for testing too... but it's kind of dead for the moment :evil:


I told you to buy a Plextor :wink:
Oh wait, you did, you just also had an LG. You don't see the Plextor breaking, now do you? :lol:

Sorry guys, just had to say that.
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Postby dodecahedron on Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:11 pm

aviationwiz wrote:
dolphinius_rex wrote:that's why I wanted the LG burner for testing too... but it's kind of dead for the moment :evil:


I told you to buy a Plextor :wink:
Oh wait, you did, you just also had an LG. You don't see the Plextor breaking, now do you? :lol:

Sorry guys, just had to say that.

:x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x
some day, out of annoyance, i'm going to use my super-human powers, sneak into aviationwiz's home and frizzle the lasers and PUHs on all his Plextor drives so that they start making C2 errors by the thousands.

maybe that will cool him down and silence him a bit. :lol: :wink:
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Postby aviationwiz on Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:39 pm

My Premium did burn a C2 once on a CD-R (TY)

I was very very pissed. I did some tests with the source disk. It ended up being the reader drive, as my 708 read it to my premium just fine. Reader was an LTD-163D. I knew it wasn't the greatest reader, but never knew it was that bad. Fast drive though. I still love my LTD-163D though, shit happens.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:45 pm

aviationwiz wrote:
dolphinius_rex wrote:that's why I wanted the LG burner for testing too... but it's kind of dead for the moment :evil:


I told you to buy a Plextor :wink:
Oh wait, you did, you just also had an LG. You don't see the Plextor breaking, now do you? :lol:

Sorry guys, just had to say that.


I don't see the Plextor breaking because I never use it for personal stuff. I only use the LiteON burners for burning my own CD-Rs, and sometimes the LG burner.... well not anymore
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:23 am

And here is the cascade testing...

For those of you who do not know, this sort of testing requires that a fresh CD-RW is burned with a small amount of data, and then that data is overwritten with a slightly larger amount of data, and then that amount of data is over written with an even larger amount of data, and this continues until the disc is full. For my testing, I burned increments of 130MB, so that after 5 burns, I would have a full 650MB image.

Again, all burning and CD Speed testing was done with the Plextor Premium drive, and all K-Probing was done with my LiteON 48125W drive.



Image

32x CD-RW #2 First Burn: Burned on Plextor Premium (130MB)
All Green in CD Speed

**Quick Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #2 Second Burn: Burned on Plextor Premium (260MB)
All Green in CD Speed

**Quick Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #2 Third Burn: Burned on Plextor Premium (390MB)
All Green in CD Speed

**Quick Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #2 Fourth Burn: Burned on Plextor Premium (520MB)
All Green in CD Speed

**Quick Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #2 Fifth Burn: Burned on Plextor Premium (650MB)
All Green in CD Speed

**Full Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #2 Sixth Burn: Burned on Plextor Premium (650MB)
All Green in CD Speed


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can see in the first 4 scans, the areas that had been burned multiple times have a significantly higher error rate then the last section to be burned. You can always pick out the 15min portions that were burned each time. I found that this test was very informative, and does a good job of showing the effects of cascade style burning!

Sadly, a full erase after the cascade testing (see burn number 6 on disc 2) did not help the error level any... infact, the overall quality of the disc went down at that point... oh well.

Again though, we are shown that this media still has quality issues... the error levels are always way too high at the beginning! I think perhaps better support from newer firmwares may help to fix this problem, but it is difficult to say. Hopefully I will get my LG burner replaced soon, and will be able to follow this testing up with the same thing, but done on a different drive. As much as the Plextor Premium is known for its' burn quality, I have seen on several occasions situations where other drives have performed *MUCH* better, and the LG 8525B was one of those drives. So keep your fingers crossed and maybe I'll have more to add in a week or so :D
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Postby MediumRare on Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:55 am

Nice test!

Don't despair on the disc you used for the cascade test- after the final burn it looks pretty much like the first one you tested- similar maxima and distributions, complete to the peaks at 11 and 14 min. Seems to be characteristic for this combination of drive + medium.

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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:09 am

too bad you didn't keep the same scale on the time axis. would have been much nicer to compare the 5 pics to each other.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:10 am

MediumRare wrote:Nice test!

Don't despair on the disc you used for the cascade test- after the final burn it looks pretty much like the first one you tested- similar maxima and distributions, complete to the peaks at 11 and 14 min. Seems to be characteristic for this combination of drive + medium.

G


True, once every portion of the disc was burned more then once, it began to look exactly like the first disc I had burned after the second recording.

That does say something postive about the media however... it give consistant results! and I for one would rather have consistant not-so-good but usable results, then sometimes good and sometimes not usable, results.

Thanks for pointing that out!
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Postby MediumRare on Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:32 am

dodecahedron wrote:too bad you didn't keep the same scale on the time axis. would have been much nicer to compare the 5 pics to each other.

That's a problem with KProbe- it sets the scale and sub-intervals automatically. CD-Doctor does this better- it fixes the scale at 80 min. Maybe that would be a better tool for cascade tests, then. It shows essentially the same C1 counts as Kprobe.

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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:00 am

my ignorance of KProbe is showing! :o :(
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:47 am

And now, proudly brought to you by The Digital Dolphin, I bring you:

The first results of 32x CD-RW recording done by an LG-8525B CD-RW drive, running firmware version 1.02!!




Image

32x CD-RW #3 First Burn: Burned on LG 8525B @32x - 3:23
95.98% Green, 4.02% Yellow (tested in LG 8525B)



**Full Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #3 Second Burn: Burned on LG 8525B @32x - 3:23
78.77% Green, 21.23% Yellow (tested in LG 8525B)



**Quick Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #3 Third Burn: Burned on LG 8525B @32x - 3:23
All Green (tested in LG 8525B)




**Full Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #3 Fourth Burn: Burned on LG 8525B @32x - 3:23
All Green (tested in LG 8525B)




**Quick Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #3 Fifth Burn: Burned on LG 8525B @32x - 3:23
All Green (tested in LG 8525B)



**Full Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #3 Sixth Burn: Burned on LG 8525B @24x - 3:48
All Green (tested in LG 8525B)



**Full Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #3 Seventh Burn: Burned on LG 8525B @16x - 5:07
All Green (tested in LG 8525B)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

So, as you can see, the first burn was not so bad, but the following burns left a LOT to be desired! Not only that, there is that second portion of the disc there, that always seems to burn poorly!

Image

As you can see, the LG 8525B uses a Z-CLV writing strategy for 32x CD-RW writing, unlike the Plextor Premium's PCAV... I think that they need to work a little harder on that initial switch from 16x to 24x eh?

Image

And yes, the LG 8525B uses Z-CLV for 24x CD-RW writing as well...

It *IS* nice however, to be able to write a 32x disc at 24x and even 16x if I want, although the writing quality is *STILL* very poor even at 16x...

Cascade testing to follow!
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:53 am

And here is the cascade testing! Done in the same way as with the Plextor Premium:



Image

32x CD-RW #4 First Burn: Burned on LG 8525B (130MB) @32x
All Green in CD Speed



**Quick Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #4 Second Burn: Burned on LG 8525B (260MB) @32x
99.72% Green, 0.28% Yellow



**Quick Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #4 Third Burn: Burned on LG 8525B (390MB) @32x
All Green in CD Speed



**Quick Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #4 Fourth Burn: Burned on LG 8525B (520MB) @32x
91.96% Green, 8.04% Yellow



**Quick Erase**



Image

32x CD-RW #4 Fifth Burn: Burned on LG 8525B (650MB) @32x
All Green in CD Speed

--------------------------------------------------------------

So that's it! All four of my 32x CD-RWs have been tested! I think of the two drives, the Plextor Premium performed the best, although I think the LG has a better chance of getting its' issues fixed with a firmware update. Neither drive performs especially well... I would really like to try these CD-RWs out on other 32x CD-RW compatible drives! perhaps the LiteON 52327S would be the next choice? too bad the next drive I intend to buy is the Pioneer A07 :D

Well, I hope you all found this info useful! I will probably throw this together into some sort of review for my webpage in the next week or so if I can spare the time, at which point the pictures here will be removed... they take up a LOT of bandwidth :o

and after over 6 hours of straight burning and testing... I'm going to sleep! :wink:
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Postby dodecahedron on Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:53 am

compliments on a job well done! :)
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Postby MediumRare on Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:38 pm

Nice test! I think a LiteOn LTR 52327S would be great as a next test subject- maybe you borrow access to one?

As far as I know, this media can't be used by an Ultraspeed (24x) drive. Can you confirm this ? Have you tried it out?

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Postby aviationwiz on Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:21 pm

MediumRare wrote:As far as I know, this media can't be used by an Ultraspeed (24x) drive. Can you confirm this ? Have you tried it out?
G


Yes, on the retail box for the media it states that the drive can only be written with drives that re-write at 32x.
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Postby dodecahedron on Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:45 pm

i don't think this is the kind of confirmation he's looking for.

e.g. UltraSpeed media isn't supposed to be written at 10x !
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:56 pm

dodecahedron wrote:i don't think this is the kind of confirmation he's looking for.

e.g. High Speed media isn't supposed to be written at 10x !


I think you mean UltraSpeed media right? :wink:

I'll try the 32x CD-RWs on my LDW-411s when I hook it up again next.
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