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Warning to Users From DVDInfoPro 10/29/2004!

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Warning to Users From DVDInfoPro 10/29/2004!

Postby MadBurner on Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:22 am

DVDInfoPro represents quality in software engineering. Users of DVDInfoPro are aware of the high standards that the development effort embodies. We thank the users for making DVDInfoPro the most well known end user DVD analysis software in the world. We thank our beta testers for their meticulous efforts and professional input to development. Without your support, there would be nothing.

It is with great sadness that we report the internet forum known as “CDFreaks” or www.cdfreaks.com to be detracting from the developmental effort and support of DVDInfoPro. This comes in the form of active condoning of piracy or otherwise illegal modification of the software. This has displeased us greatly, to the extent that we feel we need to warn users about this situation.

Sadly, this act of condoning piracy on their forums has happened on more than one occasion. Requests to the administrators and moderators to cease this practice have fallen on deaf ears.

They will continually censor you as a user, by deleting your posts and deleting your entire threads if any comment you make is about a product they do not receive advertising dollars for. This is in stark contrast to their practice as they allow their staff to post false information, piracy information and otherwise derogatory information about individual users. A recent example of this being the editing of a large-name company change log’s to omit the DVDInfoPro compliance message. We feel editing a company’s change log and publishing this in the public eye is irresponsible, unprofessional and negligent. We feel that companies have a right to know how their product is being displayed on other forums. It should always be truthful, correct and how they intended it to be!

DVDInfoPro uses advertisement for non-paying customers. We feel that these advertisements and logos are non intrusive and in no way detract from the operation or functionality of the software. www.cdfreaks.com introduces Spyware onto your computer which has been verified by two leading Spyware scanners. In addition to this, they introduce pop-ups into your web browser. Our opinion of these methods in using tracker bugs and invasive marketing “to your desktop” is very low.

With some sadness, we suggest all users try to avoid the use of this website and their associated forum. The efforts made in recent times to come to some kind of peaceful resolution to this situation have failed. You may also wish to send them an email about such practices, or maybe offer support for DVDInfoPro.

There are a multitude of useful and informative websites that exist for non-bias, object and professional views of the optical hardware industry. We have listed some below, who conduct themselves professionally, without the bad behaviour or censorship of key issues that we have experienced at CDFreaks.

www.dvd-recordable.org
www.speedlabs.org
www.cdrinfo.com
www.cdrlab.pl


This was included in the the ZIP file of the latest version of DVDInfoPro (3.42) on October 29, 2004.

Anyone care to explain this?

MB
Last edited by MadBurner on Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Hef on Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:57 am

Oh there's been some hard feelings between the two. I thought I pick up on some situation where there was some hack Lite-on firmware a while back and maybe Nic reported the hack or leaked firmware and it may have been from one of the moderators of cdfreaks. I'm not saying this is accurate, just bits and pieces I have picked up. I also saw a thread in CDfreaks at one time telling how to disable the advertisement of DVDInfoPro. Now if you look at the announcement of the latest BenQ firmware on CDfreaks it mentions CD Speed in there change log, but not DVDInfoPro, yet in BenQ change log it mentions both. So there is just some of what I picked up on, not saying I'm sure I have everything accurate though.
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Postby Ian on Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:20 am

Without going into specifics, there has been some bad blood between NicW and some of of the moderators at CD Freaks. I don't really want to get in the middle of this, so I'll leave it up to someone else to explain the whole Karr situation.

Also consider that cdrinfo is one of the biggest promoters of DVDINFOpro and they are one of the biggest competitors of CD Freaks. Just use your imagination...
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:47 am

If mods on CDFreaks actually allowed discussion of the disablement of the ads on DVDInfoPro, I think NicW is completely justified in what he did. That's pretty low and irresponsible if you ask me.
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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:51 am

while i admit i don't know all of the details, from what i have heard NicW's behaviour is just as underhanded. he's got no call to complain.
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Postby alexnoe on Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:00 am

/me is wondering when DVDInfoPro is going to support PIF/PIE-Scanning on Plextor drives...i have no idea why DVDInfoPro should be anything special! Anyone who can use Bushound can code that on his own, and more...
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Postby Ian on Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:12 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:If mods on CDFreaks actually allowed discussion of the disablement of the ads on DVDInfoPro, I think NicW is completely justified in what he did. That's pretty low and irresponsible if you ask me.


And the person(s) who did it are no longer mods there. At the same time, NicW could probably come up with a better way to do the ads or charge more for the registered version to make up for the money he's losing on the ads. I'd like to know how many people actually remove the ads and how much $$$ he's losing. There are easier ways to pirate DVDInfoPro anyway...
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Postby rdgrimes on Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:40 am

The actual "hack" in question is a simple registry change that anybody with half a brain can figure out. Many people feel that registry changing is a right that we all share. If NicW were really so concerned about this, he wouldn't have made it so easy the change. There are, of course, other ways to remove the ads that are not strictly "legal", but registry keys are our own property to do with as we please.

What's interesting is that NicW loves to brag about how his program is "free" and how he makes very little money from it. But he sure does go balistic when a few people talk about removing the ads. What's wrong with this picture?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:53 pm

Ian wrote:
dolphinius_rex wrote:If mods on CDFreaks actually allowed discussion of the disablement of the ads on DVDInfoPro, I think NicW is completely justified in what he did. That's pretty low and irresponsible if you ask me.


And the person(s) who did it are no longer mods there. At the same time, NicW could probably come up with a better way to do the ads or charge more for the registered version to make up for the money he's losing on the ads. I'd like to know how many people actually remove the ads and how much $$$ he's losing. There are easier ways to pirate DVDInfoPro anyway...


I was not aware of the person(s) no longer being a mod there. I don't really read CDFreaks if I can help it. The only exception was a short period of time where I was reading the thread about the first PX-716a's purchased from Best Buy.

I'm sure that DVDInfoPro could be done better, and certainly behaviour on both sides could be much better.
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Postby rdgrimes on Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:32 pm

Here's some enlightening info on this very subject:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=112683
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:48 pm

I want to make this 100%, I am in *NO* way condoning what was done (which I was well aware of for quite some time anyways), but I would like to point out that all NicW did was inform liteon of some things happening on a VERY public forum. Yes, he attempted to profit from it, and I don't agree with that. But it was no really NicW who put the "Author's" job/reputation at risk, but the person who decided to post the private information publically.

Does anyone *Really* believe that LiteON wouldn't have noticed the tool, and the "about" file linking it to the author directly? NicW didn't create the problem, he just brought it to a head a little sooner then it would have on it's own.

Again, I'm not condoning his actions.
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Postby rdgrimes on Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:25 pm

Does anyone *Really* believe that LiteON wouldn't have noticed the tool, and the "about" file linking it to the author directly? NicW didn't create the problem, he just brought it to a head a little sooner then it would have on it's own.

Point well taken, and possibly true. We will never know if it would have become public or not. It was removed within a couple hours after being "outed" on the forums. In fact, almost nobody knew of it's existance, so I'm inclined to think that the damage control was effective. It never did get made widely available on any forum. The all-too-well-known Polish method of cross flashing is evidence that the tool remained unknown. AFAIK, there are still only a few people who posses it. Just did a quick Googly for the file, and it's not available anywhere. (version 1.3.0)
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Postby KenW on Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:42 pm

grimes We all know anything with an eeprom or fw flash can be dangers, and ltnflash leaked or other wise has been used to mess with eeproms with in some cases bad results. yes there was version 1.2x and the mystory 1.3x , I personnally have seen only the 1.2x version and thats how i did my 401@811. I understand why liteon would not want this software in public domain, the chance to break a drive is just to high. Was nicW right or wrong to report the 1.3 leak. I dont know but I do know leaving it out for public to misuse would have been, worse.

PS

I am one of nicW dvdinfopro beta testers. But that does not mean I have to agree with him on all points or agree with you on all points, grimes. I personnally like dvdinfopro and im sorry this war started. regardless of who fired the first shots.
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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:33 pm

rdgrimes wrote:Here's some enlightening info on this very subject:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=112683

thanks for the info.
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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:05 pm

the last paragraph from that document that MadBurner didn't quote:
There are a multitude of useful and informative websites that exist for non-bias, object and professional views of the optical hardware industry. We have listed some below, who conduct themselves professionally, without the bad behaviour or censorship of key issues that we have experienced at CDFreaks.

www.dvd-recordable.org
www.speedlabs.org
www.cdrinfo.com
www.cdrlab.pl


apparently CDRLabs isn't up to NicW's standards of professional and objective views of the optical hardware industry. :lol:
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Postby dhc014 on Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:23 pm

KenW wrote:the chance to break a drive is just to high.

Actually, it made upgrading a 401S to a 411S completely foolproof.
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Postby aviationwiz on Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:32 pm

dodecahedron wrote:apparently CDRLabs isn't up to NicW's standards of professional and objective views of the optical hardware industry. :lol:


:lol: Well, on the other hand, I can't say I ever did like Nicw or DVD Info Pro. I always liked that weird CDFreaks Identifier program. Maybe if said site has no DVD Info Pro dislikers & Nicw dislikers the site qualifies for that list?
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Postby Ian on Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:56 pm

dodecahedron wrote:apparently CDRLabs isn't up to NicW's standards of professional and objective views of the optical hardware industry. :lol:


Probably because I told him I wouldn't create a special DVDInfoPro section for the forum.
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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:14 pm

Ian wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:apparently CDRLabs isn't up to NicW's standards of professional and objective views of the optical hardware industry. :lol:


Probably because I told him I wouldn't create a special DVDInfoPro section for the forum.

or course not !!!!!! :evil:

we have an Ahead software section, Adaptec software section, Sonic software section.
a DVDInfoPro section would be totally out of line.
it should be NicW sofware section ! :o

yeah, the ego on that guy...
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Postby Ian on Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:26 pm

Well it would be one thing if a) we had tons of DVDInfoPro questions and b) NicW was a regular visitor to the site.
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Postby sandersk on Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:04 pm

Love the sig, Mr. Ian. Did you come up with it yourself? I shared it with some friends -- couldn't resist.
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Postby rdgrimes on Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:08 pm

Here's some irony for you all.
Once upon a time, NicW was offered his own private support forum at CDFreaks, and he refused it. It seems he is regretting that choice now, and is full of sour grapes.

I know this because I am the one who offered it to him. His response was that he had "other plans" and that CDFreaks did not fit into them. Since then, he has set about trying to get the exact same thing at every forum on the planet, and has been rejected by every one except CDRInfo.

This is how he gets his advertising, and the only way that DIP gets promoted.
The biggest issue with Nic at CDFreaks and other forums has been his attempts to use the forums for free promotion of his product. If his program was truly free or open source, he would not have these problems.
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Postby Ian on Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:18 pm

sandersk wrote:Love the sig, Mr. Ian. Did you come up with it yourself? I shared it with some friends -- couldn't resist.


No, I'm currently "borrowing" it from another forum. :wink: I really should copy it up to my own web space.
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Postby aviationwiz on Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:53 pm

Great post over at CDF rd. Confirms a lot of what I have read. I still like a post I made about a week ago over there: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p ... stcount=64
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Postby uknown1234 on Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:54 pm

Ian wrote:
sandersk wrote:Love the sig, Mr. Ian. Did you come up with it yourself? I shared it with some friends -- couldn't resist.


No, I'm currently "borrowing" it from another forum. :wink: I really should copy it up to my own web space.

I rather like this topic better.
I too like that sig, i hadn't fully read it till sandersk complemented it :lol:
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