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Yamaha CRW-F1 and 24x CD-RW media

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Yamaha CRW-F1 and 24x CD-RW media

Postby Tony B on Sun Mar 16, 2003 12:28 pm

I've seen a list here that relates various drives to various CD-R media, and that is very helpful. Is there a similar list for drives and CD-RW media?

I've got a Yamaha CRW-F1 and I've tried the only 3 types of 24x rewritable disks I can find in stores. Only the Yamaha disk that came with the drive works. Lite-On and the notorious Memorex 24x disks don't work (i.e, Lite-On not at all, Memorex only at 10x).

Since brick&mortar stores carry only the Memorex disks, I have to go to mail order vendors, which I'm reluctant to do considering the bad track record of the other brands I've already tried.

Anyone out there own the Yamaha CRW-F1 and have positive experience with various 24x disks?

Thanks
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Postby CowboySlim on Sun Mar 16, 2003 12:54 pm

Fry's carries the Yamaha CD-RW, 24x at 3 for $10. I've got a Memorex 52x24x52x burner that came with one of their 16x-24x media, guess that I ought to fool around with it a bit.

Exactly how do I test that as I don't nominally see a speed rating when packet writing? cfitz? KCK?

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Postby cfitz on Sun Mar 16, 2003 3:13 pm

Many people recommend Verbatim's 16x-24x discs. I would go so far as to say the consensus is that they are the best. And I'm not certain, but I thought I read somewhere that Verbatim makes the Yamaha 24x CD-RW discs. I could be wrong, though. You can get a 10-pack of the Verbatim for $13 at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... s&n=507846

Or the same for $11 at buy.com:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?s ... =0&loc=101

And Micro Center as well for $13:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0149440

Pick your poison, or Google, PriceGrabber, etc. yourself.

CowboySlim wrote:Exactly how do I test that as I don't nominally see a speed rating when packet writing?

It is probably easiest to just put a blank one in your drive and run CD Speed's transfer rate test.

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Postby cfitz on Sun Mar 16, 2003 3:52 pm

By the way, if your heart is set on the Yamaha CD-RW, you can buy them online directly from Yamaha, 3 for $13:

http://www.yamahashoponline.com/product.asp?sku=2225706

Expensive, but at least shipping is free.

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Postby Tony B on Sun Mar 16, 2003 6:14 pm

Thank you all for your advice. How might I find out if Verbatim makes the disks for Yamaha? And if they do, is the formula the same.
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Postby cfitz on Sun Mar 16, 2003 7:00 pm

Tony B wrote:Thank you all for your advice. How might I find out if Verbatim makes the disks for Yamaha?

You say you have one, right? Put it in the drive, run Nero CD Speed, select "Extra"->"Disc Info" and tell us what you see.

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Postby Tony B on Sun Mar 16, 2003 9:13 pm

I didn't know about this feature. A copy and paste from CD Speed reveals:

Manufacturer : Mitsubishi
Code : 97m34s24f
Disc Type : UltraSpeed CD-RW
Usage : General
Recording Layer : Phase Change
Recording Speed : n/a
Capacity : 74:43.00
656 MB
Additional Capacity : n/a
Overburn Capacity : not tested

So it seems that Mitsubishi makes it. I've never seen Mitsubishi discs in a store before. Do they make discs for others, like Verbatim?
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Postby cfitz on Sun Mar 16, 2003 9:27 pm

Verbatim is a unit of Mitsubishi Chemicals. There you have it - confirmation that Verbatim (a.k.a. Mitsubishi Chemicals) makes the 24x CD-RW discs for Yamaha.

Thanks for posting your results.

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Postby CowboySlim on Sun Mar 16, 2003 10:52 pm

Wow,

that was fun: Speed: 15-61 CAV (25.71 X Avg), ET: 2:37
With Memorex 52x24x52x and Memorex UltraSpeed, 16x-24x, CD-RW media (not empty)

With Imation CD-R media (40 or 48x):
Speed: 24-52 CAV (39.51 X Avg), ET: 2.29

About Nero DriveSpeed:
What should I select in the list boxes?
Read Speed (default @ 12x?), and
Spin Down (default @ 2min?)

and the check boxes?
Run at start up,
Start minimized
Restore speed settings

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Postby cfitz on Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:12 pm

CowboySlim wrote:Speed: 15-61 CAV (25.71 X Avg), ET: 2:37
With Memorex 52x24x52x and Memorex UltraSpeed, 16x-24x, CD-RW media (not empty)

Is that a typo there? I assume you mean 15-41 CAV or something more like that. By the way, you were testing the read speed, not the write speed, because the disc was not blank.

CowboySlim wrote:About Nero DriveSpeed:
What should I select in the list boxes?
Read Speed (default @ 12x?), and
Spin Down (default @ 2min?)

and the check boxes?
Run at start up,
Start minimized
Restore speed settings

I don't use it at all. Unless you have a need to slow down your drives (for example if they are making too much noise for your taste, particularly during music or video playback) then it has no value and is just another something to go wrong.

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Postby CowboySlim on Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:39 pm

No, no typo. Ran it again: 15-61, 25.60avg, 2:38ET.

Not sure what you mean by "blank", formatted by InCD, erased by Nero, or just out of the shrink wrap?

No worries, I'll do the first two, none in the shrink wrap!

Be back,
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Postby cfitz on Mon Mar 17, 2003 12:17 am

CowboySlim wrote:No, no typo. Ran it again: 15-61, 25.60avg, 2:38ET.

Can you post a screen shot?

CowboySlim wrote:Not sure what you mean by "blank", formatted by InCD, erased by Nero, or just out of the shrink wrap?

Fresh out of the shrink wrap or, barring that, erased by Nero. Formatted by InCD won't work.

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Postby CowboySlim on Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:01 am

Yeah, just figure that out, formatted is like with data on it. Anyway, Nero erased says "blank" as Disc-Type on the panel.

Blank results (after Nero erase): 11-24, 18.91 avg, 5:00Et

Running the InCD fresh formatted now, oh-oh, Unrecovered read error (031100).

Trouble with screen shot, is it that Img deal, upper right.

But until it failed, trace was completely different than when I had data on it, started same at 16x, never got above 22x, then tailed way down to 3x about 48min.

Try tomorrow night,
Later, cfitz,
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Postby cfitz on Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:17 am

CowboySlim wrote:Blank results (after Nero erase): 11-24, 18.91 avg, 5:00Et

That sounds just right for writing to 24x CD-RW media. I imagine it looked like this:

Image


Reading a full CD-RW disc should look something like this:

Image

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Postby laszlotr on Mon Mar 17, 2003 3:25 pm

Now those links are for 74 min CDRW's anyone with 80 min High speed CDRW's?
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Postby MediumRare on Mon Mar 17, 2003 6:53 pm

laszlotr wrote:Now those links are for 74 min CDRW's anyone with 80 min High speed CDRW's?

Verbatim UltraSpeeds are available now (at least in Europe). I just posted some information in the Media Compatiblity Thread

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Postby tlotz on Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:50 pm

As someone posted in this topic, I figured that Yamaha Ultra Speed 24X CD-RW discs were just rebadged Mitsubshi Chemical Ultra Speed 24X CD-RW discs. Since Verbatim = Mitsubshi Chemical, the Yamaha Ultra Speed 24X CD-RW discs and the Verbatim Ultra Speed 24X CD-RW discs are exactly the same. There are two different kinds of Ultra Speed 24X CD-RW discs I am aware of:

1) Those made by Mitsubshi Chemical (Verbatim or Yamaha branded).
2) Those made by Infodisc (Memorex branded).

Here is the ATIP info on the Memorex Ultra Speed 24X media:

ATIP: 97m 25s 31f
Disc Manufacturer: InfoDisc Technology Co., Ltd.
Reflective layer: Phase change
Media type: CD-ReWritable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)

Who makes the Lite-On discs? They don't sound like Mitsubshi discs because of how they work in the Yamaha CRW-F1. The Memorex discs are *horrible*--do not buy them. I only tried them because I was trying to troubleshoot what turned out to be a defective drive--I knew that the Memorex discs were crap. Go with the Verbatim DataLifePlus Ultra Speed CD-RW discs, or the Yamaha. Your best bet is to go with whichever (Verbatim or Yamaha) you can get cheaper and at the quantity you wish to purchase.
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Postby CowboySlim on Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:17 am

cfitz,

Write test looked just like above. Reformat and fill with data and test read tomorrow.

Get some verbatims when I think of enough other stuff for Amazon free shipping.

Later,
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Postby cfitz on Tue Mar 18, 2003 2:00 am

CowboySlim wrote:Write test looked just like above. Reformat and fill with data and test read tomorrow.

I expected the write test would look like that, because the figures you report for the write test sound right (no pun intended). More interesting will be the read test where you keep reporting (impossibly 8) ) a 61x maximum read speed. I think that must be a little test glitch in CD Speed. Perhaps the final point's read speed is being artificially inflated as a buffer empties, at the expense of a slower speed being reported on an earlier point.

CowboySlim wrote:Get some verbatims when I think of enough other stuff for Amazon free shipping.

I'm in the same position.

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Postby Tony B on Wed Mar 19, 2003 7:21 pm

I bought 2 boxes of Verbatim ultra-speed disks based on what I found out here, and they work. They're a good deal, about 1/3 the price of the Yamaha branded disks.

By the way, why does "buffer underrun" appear under my username? I don't want it and didn't add it.
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Postby cfitz on Wed Mar 19, 2003 7:46 pm

Tony B wrote:By the way, why does "buffer underrun" appear under my username? I don't want it and didn't add it.

Be patient. Everyone starts out as a "Buffer Underrun". You are not alone. As you spend more time on the forums and contribute more, you will eventually transition to a "CD-RW Thug" (50 posts) and later a "CD-RW Player" (100 posts). But just because you don't like being a "Buffer Underrrun", don't take that as a reason to mindlessly increase your post count and become a "post whore" as BuddhaTB put it. :wink:

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Postby Tony B on Wed Mar 19, 2003 8:09 pm

To be sure, I'll not chase belt notches idly.
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Postby CowboySlim on Thu Mar 20, 2003 11:11 pm

cfitz:

Picking up the test again. Memorex drive, 52x,24x,52x & Memorex 16x-24x media. Filled it with data then ran the transfer test. Looked like yours until 26x (max achieved) at 32min, then started falling off. overall: 16-19x, 21.39avg, 3:07ET, redline (vertical @ 62), total time: 65:36.

Was your read test, above a CD-RW media? Went way over 24x.

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Postby cfitz on Thu Mar 20, 2003 11:29 pm

First, those are Ian's tests, not mine (I lifted them from his review at http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.ph ... erformance ) I can't claim credit for the nice charts. :)

The test shown in my earlier post was for CD-RW media, which is generally harder for drives to read at speed than pressed and CD-R media. With pressed and CD-R media the Memorex/LTR-52246S will go to its maximum 52x speed.

I suspect that your results were caused by the notoriously poor quality of Memorex CD-RW discs. Here are some error tests of the Memorex CD-RW sample disc (10x in my case) that came with my Memorex 48MAXX drive (the following two charts are mine):

Image

Image

You can see how bad these discs are. Mine quit working altogether (can't be read/written/erased at all) after something like four erasure cycles. Your disc is probably starting to go bad as well, and when a disc goes bad the drive has to slow down to try to read the difficult sectors.

You can see a similar effect in Ian's test when he tested some 99-minute discs which, because they are out of the official CD specifications, tend to be more difficult to read as well:

Image

You can see that at the end of the disc, where the higher speeds and greater wobble and vibration make any disc harder to read, let alone a 99-minute disc, the drive had to slow down to compensate.

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Postby CowboySlim on Fri Mar 21, 2003 1:00 am

OK, cfitz, I got the message! Glad it's the media, not the burner!

You gave the tip on the Verbatim at Amazon a couple of weeks ago, but I said I had to think of something else to get the $25 free shipping. Now, I got BuddaTB's tip today for buy.com - better yet.

However, not sure what I'd do with them. Looking at a stack of about 45 Imation 40x (that I've had for a while) next to my 50 Fujis from Best Buy this week and I hardly do any packet writing anymore. Probably get some anyway, just to have some.

Anyway, got to turn in soon, 9PM PST. Gotta' get up early, out to the driveway for the paper. Friday morning Fry's ad. Right BuddaTB?

Thanks,
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