Home News Reviews Forums Shop


Yamaha Ultra Speed 24X CD-RW discs

Burn baby burn!

Yamaha Ultra Speed 24X CD-RW discs

Postby tlotz on Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:14 pm

I heard in this forum (I think) that the Yamaha Ultra Speed CD-RW discs are Mitsubishi Chemical, like the Verbatim Ultra Speed CD-RW discs. After trying 3 packs of the much more inexpensive Verbatim 24X CD-RW discs, I am unimpressed. My 3-packs were all made in Taiwan. From what I've heard, the Verbatim CD-R/RW media varies in quality depending on where it is made. The problem with buying the much less expensive Verbatim 24X CD-RW discs is that it is almost always impossible to be picky about obtaining Verbatim 24X CD-RW discs made in a certain place (i.e. Singapore or Ireland) because when ordering them, you just get whatever stock is in the warehouse, regardless of where it is made. I just don't want to go after the difficult task of obtaining Verbatim Ultra Speed discs made somewhere other than Taiwan. So, I decided it would be a great idea to try the Yamaha 24X CD-RW discs, since they are also Mitsubishi Chemical made. Since the Yamaha discs are considered "Professional Grade" and since they cost over 3 times what the Verbatim 24X CD-RWs cost per disc, it seems that the Yamaha's are worth a try. My initial impression was that Yamaha was ripping off the public buy charging over 3 times the amount of the Verbatim's per disc, but maybe not. It is possible that the Yamaha 24X CD-RW discs are made to higher standards than the Verbatims, and maybe at the "better factories", even though the Yamahas are also Mitsubishi discs. But after finding that my Taiwanese Verbatim 24X CD-RW discs (without a lot of use) can score a horrible max of 600 C1 errors with an average around 50.0, I just can't imagine how the Verbatim discs can handle a lot of rewrites unless the error rate drops down and levels off eventually. Nonetheless, since I feel the need to try another quality brand, I am going to give the Yamahas a try. We all know that the Memorex Ultra Speed discs are *horrible*, so the Yamaha discs are the only other choice that I know of. Has anyone in this forum tested the Yamaha 24X CD-RW discs? If so, where are they made, and do they have lower error rates? I realize that my TDK VeloCD 52/24/48 (rebadged LiteON) 67U4 firmware may be the cause of my write quality problem, but I feel trying different 24X CD-RW discs could produce better results. I am using the latest TDK firmware, and do not want to switch to the LiteOn firmware at this time. The Yamaha discs are at the URL:

http://www.yamahamultimedia.com/yec/pro ... 74m243.asp

and cost $12.99 for a 3-pack, with free ground shipping included. For anyone ordering the discs in the U.S., buy them from the 800 number (1-800-988-4184), not the website. Just visit the above website first to obtain the part #. They are currently in stock. The website is messed up--after placing an online order, I got an empty cart error at the completion of the order. The lady on the phone said many people were having this same problem, so don't order from Yamaha through their website unless you want trouble.
tlotz
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

Postby Action Jackson on Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:12 am

I would agree with you about how some RW Verbatims have some questionable quality.

So at the moment anyways, I guess I can scratch Yamaha off my list along with Memorex for CDRW media.
Action Jackson
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2002 12:13 pm
Location: Markham, ON. CANADA

Postby tlotz on Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:23 am

Action Jackson wrote:I would agree with you about how some RW Verbatims have some questionable quality.

So at the moment anyways, I guess I can scratch Yamaha off my list along with Memorex for CDRW media.

What do you mean? It sounds like you have had a negative experience(s) with Yamaha CD-RW discs.
tlotz
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

Postby CowboySlim on Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:39 am

My 10 pack of Verbatim DataLifePlus UltraSpeed just came from Buy.com today. I'll check out tomorrow and get back.

Slim
User avatar
CowboySlim
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1868
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:58 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

Postby tlotz on Thu Apr 10, 2003 1:52 am

CowboySlim wrote:My 10 pack of Verbatim DataLifePlus UltraSpeed just came from Buy.com today. I'll check out tomorrow and get back.

Slim

Hi CowboySlim--I bought my first 10-pack of Verbatim Ultra Speed discs from Buy.com because they had the best price and free shipping on that item. Off the top of my head, it was $11.99 with free shipping. Before you test the discs, where were they made? Look on the red paper Verbatim label on the back of the shrink wrap. Without that red paper labeling that is on the shrink wrap, you won't know where the discs are made, since the disc's individual Verbatim paper label that goes inside the slim jewel cases doesn't say where the disc was made.
tlotz
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

Postby CowboySlim on Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:31 pm

OK, tlotz, here's the deal:

Verbatim DataLifePlus UltraSpeed made in Taiwan by Mitsubishi

Fresh out of the box transfer test: 10.92x, 23.71x, 18.08; good shape

Format and fill with *jpg's

Transfer test: 16.11x, 34.04x, 25.94; good shape - straight lines

Surface Scan: 100%, 0%, 0%

OK, cfitz: Thanks for the advice! (Which media to buy and where)

BuddaTB: Meet me at the LAComputerFair at the Orange County Fairgrounds Sat. and I'll buy you a hot dog.

Hoxlund: Go to your room and don't come out until you clean it up!

Slim
User avatar
CowboySlim
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1868
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:58 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

Postby Action Jackson on Thu Apr 10, 2003 11:04 pm

tlotz wrote:What do you mean? It sounds like you have had a negative experience(s) with Yamaha CD-RW discs.


I meant that since this Yamaha media seems to be giving problems, then I should avoid buying it for now. Just like the Memorex media.

On a side note, I've also noticed that my Verbatim 10x CDRW doesn't always burn perfectly.
Action Jackson
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2002 12:13 pm
Location: Markham, ON. CANADA

Postby CowboySlim on Thu Apr 10, 2003 11:40 pm

Action:

I see those Yamaha 16x-24x CDs at Fry's for $10 per box of three. At that price, I passed and real glad of it. Per cfitz, I got a box of 10 from buy.com for about $10 and free shipping. You can't beat that with a stick!

Only way you can get a better deal is through an extreme mass quantity purchase like Hoxlund does. His come in a UPS 18 wheeler!

:)

Hey cfitz: Remember when I was having trouble with emoticons and the quote shortcut? Fixed it, don't know how. Actually, I'm on my other HDD (both have bootable primary partitions with OS's installed) now. Maybe that is the lead that I need.

Slim
User avatar
CowboySlim
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1868
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:58 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

Postby cfitz on Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:02 am

CowboySlim wrote:Hey cfitz: Remember when I was having trouble with emoticons and the quote shortcut? Fixed it, don't know how.

Perhaps now you have javascript enabled? Anway, nice to see that you can smile online now. :wink:

cfitz
cfitz
CD-RW Curmudgeon
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:44 am

Postby CowboySlim on Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:30 am

Can't smile, back on my primary HDD. Now, I'll examine the differences.

Strange though - doesn't affect Thompson's forums. Smilies work there.
User avatar
CowboySlim
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1868
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:58 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

Postby tlotz on Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:45 am

CowboySlim wrote:OK, tlotz, here's the deal:

Verbatim DataLifePlus UltraSpeed made in Taiwan by Mitsubishi

Fresh out of the box transfer test: 10.92x, 23.71x, 18.08; good shape

Format and fill with *jpg's

Transfer test: 16.11x, 34.04x, 25.94; good shape - straight lines

Surface Scan: 100%, 0%, 0%

OK, cfitz: Thanks for the advice! (Which media to buy and where)

BuddaTB: Meet me at the LAComputerFair at the Orange County Fairgrounds Sat. and I'll buy you a hot dog.

Hoxlund: Go to your room and don't come out until you clean it up!

Slim

My discs are also 100% in the Nero CD Speed Scandisk test. What I am interested in knowing is what is your C1 error rate? Since CD Speed only measures C2 error rates, it doesn't tell me anything. CD Doctor and K Probe measure C1 error rates. If you have time, feel like it, and have the right software, measure the C1 error rates, especially on discs that have already been written to/erased once.
tlotz
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

Postby tlotz on Fri Apr 11, 2003 1:00 am

cfitz: given the high C1 error rates I have seen with the Verbatim discs, am I correct in assuming that the Verbatim Ultra Speed CD-RW discs are not going to last as long as other CD-RW media that has much lower C1 error rates? My worst C1 error rate was a *max* of 600 and an average of 50 with no C2 errors on one of the discs that had been written to an unknown number of times--most likely, the disc had been erased but never written. The worst I saw from my Verbatim High Speed 10X media CD-RW was a C1 error rate *max* of 19 and *average* of 4.352. There is such a huge difference in C1 error rates between the 10X and 24X Verbatim media. Sure the 10X was burned at a lower speed, but the Ultra Speed media should be designed to burn with decent quality (that of the 10X media) at its highest rated speed! I am concerned because I feel that I will not get a lot of burns out of each one of the Ultra Speed discs because the C1 error rates are terrible. My Verbatim 24X CD-RW discs have the CDRLabs record for worst quality Verbatim Ultra Speed discs.
tlotz
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

Postby CowboySlim on Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:13 am

Do you have a handy link to CD Doctor and K Probe? If not, I'll do a search later. Then I'll run the other test.

I'll be out of the game for a while, going to the Wild West Show in Norco. Back this evening.

Slim
User avatar
CowboySlim
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1868
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:58 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

Postby cfitz on Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:20 am

CowboySlim wrote:Do you have a handy link to CD Doctor and K Probe?

Slim, where have you been?!?!?!? :wink: 8) You can get them both right here at CDRLabs:

CD Doctor thread, download link
K's Probe thread, download links (start with the kpsetup.exe if you don't have ASPI installed already and this is your fist installation of K's Probe)

cfitz
cfitz
CD-RW Curmudgeon
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:44 am

Postby cfitz on Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:30 am

tlotz wrote:cfitz: given the high C1 error rates I have seen with the Verbatim discs, am I correct in assuming that the Verbatim Ultra Speed CD-RW discs are not going to last as long as other CD-RW media that has much lower C1 error rates?

I don't think that necessarily follows. While it is true that a disc with higher C1 error rates has less margin for degradation, I don't think that directly implies that a CD-RW with higher C1 rates will give fewer write/erase cycles. It may just mean that the reflectivity isn't as good on that disc, so it is harder to read. But that disc might remain rewritable at the higher C1 levels for a long time, perhaps even for a longer time than a CD-RW disc that starts out with lower C1 error rates. Nothing is ever straightforward. :(

cfitz
cfitz
CD-RW Curmudgeon
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:44 am

Postby tlotz on Fri Apr 11, 2003 1:44 pm

cfitz wrote:
tlotz wrote:cfitz: given the high C1 error rates I have seen with the Verbatim discs, am I correct in assuming that the Verbatim Ultra Speed CD-RW discs are not going to last as long as other CD-RW media that has much lower C1 error rates?

I don't think that necessarily follows. While it is true that a disc with higher C1 error rates has less margin for degradation, I don't think that directly implies that a CD-RW with higher C1 rates will give fewer write/erase cycles. It may just mean that the reflectivity isn't as good on that disc, so it is harder to read. But that disc might remain rewritable at the higher C1 levels for a long time, perhaps even for a longer time than a CD-RW disc that starts out with lower C1 error rates. Nothing is ever straightforward. :(

cfitz

One thing that is straightforward: Memorex CD-RW discs (including their Ultra Speed discs) are horrible! I always wondered how a company like Memorex can get away with selling such horrible quality to the public. Sounds like a class action lawsuit is necessary against Memorex. The Verbatim Ultra Speed disc's have questionable quality and by trying one 3-pack of the Yamaha's, I hope to see if I can find better quality. I'll post the results here--it will be great if the Yamaha discs are really of decent quality compared to the Verbatim Ultra Speed discs.

By the way, I have 3-packs of the very questionable made in Taiwan Verbatim 24X CD-RW discs. Another reason I am inclined to think these discs are low quality is because before purchasing my TDK 5200B drive, I owned 3 Plextor 48/24/48A drives--the last two of these drives, including one that was TLA #0102 and inspected by the Director of Engineering at Plextor America, intermittedly failed to write/full erase to the 3-packs of made in Taiwan Verbatim 24X CD-RW discs. The chances of both of those drives being defective is ridiculously low--but now that I am finding, thanks to my TDK 5200B drive, that the Verbatim 24X CD-RW discs in question have unusually high C1 error rates, I'm inclined to think that Verbatim's made in Taiwan Ultra Speed discs are poor in quality. I have another question for you cfitz. The error the Plextor drives got when failing to write to these discs was a power calibration error. Because of that error, and how picky Plextor drives tend to be, do you think that the high C1 error rates discovered by my TDK drive on this media caused the power calibration error failures on the Plextor drives? I think so! My TDK Liteon made drive never has any trouble writing to or erasing the discs! :)
tlotz
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

Postby rdgrimes on Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:47 pm

I've had very good results with the Verbatim 24x RW media. although the C1 rates are higher than CDR's, they are better, or certainly no worse than the 12x media from any other maker.
I've had one DLP 24x disc stored for 5 months with 650MB of data, no degradation seen thus far. Another 2 are getting full erased and overwritten every week for the same period also with no degradation. The LiteOn 52x drive really likes these discs. I see very little difference between full erase, quick erase or full erasing at 10x speed. The newest F/W for the LiteOn has improved things even more. You can see my tests of this media here: http://forum.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60316
rdgrimes
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 963
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:27 pm
Location: New Mexico, USA

Postby tlotz on Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:17 pm

rdgrimes wrote:I've had very good results with the Verbatim 24x RW media. although the C1 rates are higher than CDR's, they are better, or certainly no worse than the 12x media from any other maker.
I've had one DLP 24x disc stored for 5 months with 650MB of data, no degradation seen thus far. Another 2 are getting full erased and overwritten every week for the same period also with no degradation. The LiteOn 52x drive really likes these discs. I see very little difference between full erase, quick erase or full erasing at 10x speed. The newest F/W for the LiteOn has improved things even more. You can see my tests of this media here: http://forum.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60316

Thanks for your reply rdgrimes. I have already seen your spectacular results with these media. Which is one reason why I questioned my high C1 error rates, because of your superb results, MediumRare's superb results, and probably others who have gotten marvelous results. I realize that my problem my be immature firmware, I've known that all along--but the only firmware upgrade I can do involves switching this drive to LiteOn firmware, which I don't want to do until I am *sure* it is necessary. My question for you is: where are your Verbatim 24X CD-RW discs made? I've either got an immature firmware problem or have been screwed by a poor quality Taiwan Verbatim factory. People in this forum have never indicated that the problem is a defective drive, so I am not counting that as a possibility.
tlotz
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

Postby rdgrimes on Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:29 pm

My question for you is: where are your Verbatim 24X CD-RW discs made?

I have to admit that I don't know where they were made.
rdgrimes
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 963
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:27 pm
Location: New Mexico, USA


Return to CD-R/CD-RW Drives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

All Content is Copyright (c) 2001-2017 CDRLabs Inc.