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Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

General discussion about recordable CD, DVD and BD media and write quality testing.

Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:56 pm

Hey Guys, I want some opinions on how things should go for my next set of longevity tests. Here's what I've got so far:

- Discs will be burned at tested (intial tests) between August 22st and 27th of 2006
- Discs will be tested on a BenQ DW1640 running BSLB firmware, and a LiteON 1635S running a firmware yet to be determined (possibly YV6H for DVDScan compatability). 1 disc from each media type will also be tested on a CATS media tester.
- The drives testing the media will have "static firmwares", meaning they will not be changed throughout the course of the 2 year project.
- 26 media types will be tested
- 5 discs of each media type will be burned
- 3 discs of the 5 burned will be used for the longevity test
- 2 discs of the 5 may be used for alternative "accelerated longevity" tests, pending whether or not I can find a good way of handling it. (looking less likely at this point)
- Discs will be tested every 6 months, and checked for degridation
- All results will be posted on CDRlabs, along with my comments regarding the quality and consistancy of the tested media.
- The testing software used for testing with the BenQ will be Nero CD/DVD Speed (version 4.51.1)
- The software testing software used for testing with the LiteON is still to be determined (K-Probe, and DVDScan most likely)
- The discs will be burned on a BenQ DW1650, Pioneer DVR-111D, and Panasonic DVD Recorder (DMRES25S).
- The discs will be burned on the BenQ and LiteON drives will be in DVD-Video format, burned using Nero CD/DVD Speed's image burning function
- The media burned on the BenQ and Pioneer drives will be burned at the rated speed of the media, or the closest available speed if the rated speed is not available on that drive. The Panasonic Recorder will record at real time.
- The temperature and Humidity will be recorded during the course of the study.


Now, what I still need to decide is the following (and comments/suggestions are welcome and appreciated):

- Which disc should be sent in to be tested on the CATS? Only one disc of each media type can be tested. (still deciding this, any suggestions?)

All media to be used in this study has been finalized. The media details are shown below:

Sample# / Disc Type / MID Code / Stamper Code / Serial Number

A1 / Taiyo Yuden 16x DVD+R / YUDEN000T03 / TH001333 0101 / 5E525A506606PH
A2 / Taiyo Yuden 16x DVD+R / YUDEN000T03 / TH001333 0101 / 5E525A506605PH
A3 / Taiyo Yuden 16x DVD+R / YUDEN000T03 / TH001333 0101 / 5E525A506604PH
A4 / Taiyo Yuden 16x DVD+R / YUDEN000T03 / TH001333 0101 / 5E525A506603PH
A5 / Taiyo Yuden 16x DVD+R / YUDEN000T03 / TH001333 0101 / 5E525A506607PH

B1 / Taiyo Yuden 16x DVD-R / TYG03 / GH000073 0116 / 1D524A105624GH
B2 / Taiyo Yuden 16x DVD-R / TYG03 / GH000073 0116 / 1D524A105625GH
B3 / Taiyo Yuden 16x DVD-R / TYG03 / GH000073 0116 / 1D524A105626GH
B4 / Taiyo Yuden 16x DVD-R / TYG03 / GH000073 0116 / 1D524A105628GH
B5 / Taiyo Yuden 16x DVD-R / TYG03 / GH000073 0116 / 1D524A105623GH

C1 / Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD+R / YUDEN000T02 / TG001133 0903 / JH421L01145PG (replaced from my personal stock, I accidentily burned the previous one at 12x instead of the rated speed)
C2 / Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD+R / YUDEN000T02 / TG001159 0918 / FH522A103189PG
C3 / Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD+R / YUDEN000T02 / TG001159 0918 / FH522A103185PG
C4 / Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD+R / YUDEN000T02 / TG001159 0918 / FH522A103186PG
C5 / Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD+R / YUDEN000T02 / TG001159 0918 / FH522A103187PG

D1 / Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD-R / TYG02 / GG000110 0813 / LE526A101198GG
D2 / Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD-R / TYG02 / GG000110 0813 / LE526A101102GG
D3 / Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD-R / TYG02 / GG000110 0813 / LE526A101101GG
D4 / Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD-R / TYG02 / GG000110 0813 / LE526A101104GG
D5 / Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD-R / TYG02 / GG000110 0813 / LE526A101103GG

E1 / Delkin Gold Scratch Armour 4x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD4076-DVR-J47C1 / 6097D7114136 4 G FAILED!!
E1-2 / Delkin Gold Scratch Armour 4x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD4076-DVR-J47C1 / 6097D7114132 4 G (replacement for failed disc)
E2 / Delkin Gold Scratch Armour 4x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD4076-DVR-J47C1 / 6097D7107372 4 G
E3 / Delkin Gold Scratch Armour 4x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD4076-DVR-J47C1 / 6097D7104751 2 G
E4 / Delkin Gold Scratch Armour 4x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD4076-DVR-J47C1 / 6097D7104757 4 G
E5 / Delkin Gold Scratch Armour 4x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD4076-DVR-J47C1 / 6097D7104761 4 G

F1 / Sony 16x DVD+R / SONYD21 / DRP5GG0001 H / SMM10412L10825000030247 45W4
F2 / Sony 16x DVD+R / SONYD21 / DRP5GG0001 H / SMM10412L10825000030245 45W4
F3 / Sony 16x DVD+R / SONYD21 / DRP5GG0001 H / SMM10412L10825000030249 45W4
F4 / Sony 16x DVD+R / SONYD21 / DRP5GG0001 H / SMM10412L10825000030251 45W4
F5 / Sony 16x DVD+R / SONYD21 / DRP5GG0001 H / SMM10412L10825000030235 45W4

G1 / Sony 16x DVD-R / SONY16D1 / DRM5GG0001 2E / SMM10506F13585000010302 45V6
G2 / Sony 16x DVD-R / SONY16D1 / DRM5GG0001 2E / SMM10506F13585000010303 45V6
G3 / Sony 16x DVD-R / SONY16D1 / DRM5GG0001 2E / SMM10506F13585000010304 45V6
G4 / Sony 16x DVD-R / SONY16D1 / DRM5GG0001 2E / SMM10506F13585000010336 45V6
G5 / Sony 16x DVD-R / SONY16D1 / DRM5GG0001 2E / SMM10506F13585000010305 45V6

H1 / Verbatim Ultralife Gold 8x DVD-R / MCC02RG20 / ZD4763-DVR-I47C / 6137E3412-05841C13
H2 / Verbatim Ultralife Gold 8x DVD-R / MCC02RG20 / ZD4763-DVR-I47C / 6137E3415-05838C13
H3 / Verbatim Ultralife Gold 8x DVD-R / MCC02RG20 / ZD4763-DVR-I47C / 6137E3411-05836C13
H4 / Verbatim Ultralife Gold 8x DVD-R / MCC02RG20 / ZD4763-DVR-I47C / 6137E3416-05837C13
H5 / Verbatim Ultralife Gold 8x DVD-R / MCC02RG20 / ZD4763-DVR-I47C / 6137E3414-05839C13

I1 / Verbatim 16x DVD+R / MCC004 / ZD2632-DVR-T47D / PAPA22II28032680 4
I2 / Verbatim 16x DVD+R / MCC004 / ZD2632-DVR-T47D / PAPA22II28032802 2
I3 / Verbatim 16x DVD+R / MCC004 / ZD2632-DVR-T47D / PAPA22II28063032 6
I4 / Verbatim 16x DVD+R / MCC004 / ZD2632-DVR-T47D / PAPA22II28083264 6
I5 / Verbatim 16x DVD+R / MCC004 / ZD2632-DVR-T47D / PAPA22II28083034 6

J1 / Verbatim 16x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD3177-DVR-J47C1 / MAP633JG25065865 3
J2 / Verbatim 16x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD3177-DVR-J47C1 / MAP633JG25065758 2 FAILED!!
J2-2 / Verbatim 16x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD3148-DVR-J47C1 / MAPA08IK10143765 6 (replacement for failed disc)
J3 / Verbatim 16x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD3177-DVR-J47C1 / MAP633JG25083456 6
J4 / Verbatim 16x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD3177-DVR-J47C1 / MAP633JG25065762 6
J5 / Verbatim 16x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD3177-DVR-J47C1 / MAP633JG25065764 2

K1 / Nexxtech 16x DVD+R / CMCMAGM01 / CPDR47G-CDMWP01-024 0110 / PDP 688JC05045658 6
K2 / Nexxtech 16x DVD+R / CMCMAGM01 / CPDR47G-CDMWP01-024 0110 / PDP 688JC05045648 5
K3 / Nexxtech 16x DVD+R / CMCMAGM01 / CPDR47G-CDMWP01-024 0110 / PDP 688JC05045642 6
K4 / Nexxtech 16x DVD+R / CMCMAGM01 / CPDR47G-CDMWP01-024 0110 / PDP 688JC05050743 7
K5 / Nexxtech 16x DVD+R / CMCMAGM01 / CPDR47G-CDMWP01-024 0110 / PDP 688JC05050739 5

L1 / Nexxtech 16x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD3177-DVR-J47C1 / MAP642JC18055978 6
L2 / Nexxtech 16x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD3177-DVR-J47C1 / MAP643JC21180748 5
L3 / Nexxtech 16x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD3177-DVR-J47C1 / MAP643JC21180057 5
L4 / Nexxtech 16x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD3177-DVR-J47C1 / MAP642JC18080085 2
L5 / Nexxtech 16x DVD-R / MCC03RG20 / ZD3177-DVR-J47C1 / MAP642JC18060088 4

M1 / Acro Circle 16x DVD+R / OPTODISCR16 / OTC+R86057N0 R16 0202 +R 1~16X / BR05012606-PP011D4502
M2 / Acro Circle 16x DVD+R / OPTODISCR16 / OTC+R86060N0 R16 0213 +R 1~16X / BR05011908-PP010A2450
M3 / Acro Circle 16x DVD+R / OPTODISCR16 / OTC+R86060N0 R16 0213 +R 1~16X / BR05011906-PP010E3122
M4 / Acro Circle 16x DVD+R / OPTODISCR16 / OTC+R86060N0 R16 0213 +R 1~16X / BR05011903-PP010E2687
M5 / Acro Circle 16x DVD+R / OPTODISCR16 / OTC+R86057N0 R16 0202 +R 1~16X / BR05012606-PP011F6278

N1 / Acro Circle 16x DVD-R / OPTODISCR016 / OTC-R86136WP / LR27-16E0412160356
N2 / Acro Circle 16x DVD-R / OPTODISCR016 / OTC-R86136WP / LR27-16E0412160337
N3 / Acro Circle 16x DVD-R / OPTODISCR016 / OTC-R86136WP / LR27-16E0412160355
N4 / Acro Circle 16x DVD-R / OPTODISCR016 / OTC-R86136WP / LR27-16E0412160628
N5 / Acro Circle 16x DVD-R / OPTODISCR016 / OTC-R86136WP / LR27-16E0412160356

O1 / Moser Baer 16x DVD-R / MBI03RG40 / MBI-F-16X 0003 / 5356 547 -R E E 13030
O2 / Moser Baer 16x DVD-R / MBI03RG40 / MBI-F-16X 0003 / 5356 547 -R E B 13033
O3 / Moser Baer 16x DVD-R / MBI03RG40 / MBI-F-16X 0003 / 5356 547 -R E A 13010
O4 / Moser Baer 16x DVD-R / MBI03RG40 / MBI-F-16X 0003 / 5356 547 -R E D 13013
O5 / Moser Baer 16x DVD-R / MBI03RG40 / MBI-F-16X 0003 / 5356 547 -R E F 13029

P1 / BenQ 16x DVD+R / DAXONAZ3 / AMC16DPR47DH3101 / MF01021042357 3 A4P120
P2 / BenQ 16x DVD+R / DAXONAZ3 / AMC16DPR47DH3101 / MF01021042357 3 A4P120 FAILED!!
P2-2 / BenQ 16x DVD+R / DAXONAZ3 / AMC16DPR47DH3101 / MF01021042357 3 A4P120 (replacement for failed disc)
P3 / BenQ 16x DVD+R / DAXONAZ3 / AMC16DPR47DH3101 / MF01021042357 3 A4P120
P4 / BenQ 16x DVD+R / DAXONAZ3 / AMC16DPR47DH3101 / MF01021042356 3 A4P120
P5 / BenQ 16x DVD+R / DAXONAZ3 / AMC16DPR47DH3101 / MF01021042356 3 A4P120

Q1 / RiData 16x DVD-R / RITEKF1 / DR5F6O-00065 / H4-08F60504305140A22
Q2 / RiData 16x DVD-R / RITEKF1 / DR5F6O-00065 / H4-08F60504305144E22
Q3 / RiData 16x DVD-R / RITEKF1 / DR5F6O-00065 / H4-08F60504305145F22
Q4 / RiData 16x DVD-R / RITEKF1 / DR5F6O-00065 / H4-08F60504305146C22
Q5 / RiData 16x DVD-R / RITEKF1 / DR5F6O-00065 / H4-08F60504305148A22

R1 / RiData 8x DVD-R / RITEKG05 / DR5A03-00442 / J4-07A03509222307E14
R2 / RiData 8x DVD-R / RITEKG05 / DR5A03-00442 / J4-07A03509222304H14
R3 / RiData 8x DVD-R / RITEKG05 / DR5A03-00442 / J4-07A03509222302B14
R4 / RiData 8x DVD-R / RITEKG05 / DR5A03-00442 / J4-07A03509222297G14
R5 / RiData 8x DVD-R / RITEKG05 / DR5A03-00442 / J4-07A03509222298F14

S1 / TDK 16x DVD+R / TDK003 / DVD+R 4824B2 / C05B271142dA435
S2 / TDK 16x DVD+R / TDK003 / DVD+R 4824B2 / C05B271141dA432
S3 / TDK 16x DVD+R / TDK003 / DVD+R 4824B2 / C05B261759dA433
S4 / TDK 16x DVD+R / TDK003 / DVD+R 4824B2 / C05B261758dA432
S5 / TDK 16x DVD+R / TDK003 / DVD+R 4824B2 / C05C010234dA435

T1 / Maxell 16x DVD-R / PRODISCF02 / PF02-2607-5135 / 5334F0226-00875E19
T2 / Maxell 16x DVD-R / PRODISCF02 / PF02-2607-5135 / 5334F0222-00873E19
T3 / Maxell 16x DVD-R / PRODISCF02 / PF02-2607-5135 / 5334F0223-00878E19
T4 / Maxell 16x DVD-R / PRODISCF02 / PF02-2607-5135 / 5334F0221-00250E18
T5 / Maxell 16x DVD-R / PRODISCF02 / PF02-2607-5135 / 5334F0226-00251E18

U1 / Philips 16x DVD+R / INFOMER30 / DVD+R3 05071301 / 01EL2702 34224
U2 / Philips 16x DVD+R / INFOMER30 / DVD+R3 05071301 / 01EL2702 36173
U3 / Philips 16x DVD+R / INFOMER30 / DVD+R3 05071301 / 01EL2702 32243
U4 / Philips 16x DVD+R / INFOMER30 / DVD+R3 05071301 / 01EL2700 36819
U5 / Philips 16x DVD+R / INFOMER30 / DVD+R3 05071301 / 01EL2702 33233

V1 / Emtec Gold 4x DVD+R / MPOMEDIA080 / DVD+R 4.7G 11R4 106470 / 2 3 0412021144- 5312447
V2 / Emtec Gold 4x DVD+R / MPOMEDIA080 / DVD+R 4.7G 11R4 106470 / 2 2 0412021145- 5312460
V3 / Emtec Gold 4x DVD+R / MPOMEDIA080 / DVD+R 4.7G 11R4 106470 / 2 4 0412021448- 5315184
V4 / Emtec Gold 4x DVD+R / MPOMEDIA080 / DVD+R 4.7G 11R4 106470 / 2 3 0412021448- 5315170
V5 / Emtec Gold 4x DVD+R / MPOMEDIA080 / DVD+R 4.7G 11R4 106470 / 2 1 0412021448- 5315173

W1 / TDK 16x DVD-R / TTH02 / DVD-R 5420B2 1004 / MOP6A9J126175789 D2
W2 / TDK 16x DVD-R / TTH02 / DVD-R 5420B2 1004 / MOP6A9J126175787 D7
W3 / TDK 16x DVD-R / TTH02 / DVD-R 5420B2 1004 / MOP6A9J126175786 D6
W4 / TDK 16x DVD-R / TTH02 / DVD-R 5420B2 1004 / MOP6A9J126175792 D6
W5 / TDK 16x DVD-R / TTH02 / DVD-R 5420B2 1004 / MOP6A9J126175442 D5

X1 / MAM-A Gold 16x DVD-R / MBI01RG40 / 200150 DVDMINUSR 16X / 6205D5111787 1 G
X2 / MAM-A Gold 16x DVD-R / MBI01RG40 / 200150 DVDMINUSR 16X / 6208D5111792 4 G
X3 / MAM-A Gold 16x DVD-R / MBI01RG40 / 200150 DVDMINUSR 16X / 6208D5111793 3 G
X4 / MAM-A Gold 16x DVD-R / MBI01RG40 / 200150 DVDMINUSR 16X / 6208D5111796 4 G
X5 / MAM-A Gold 16x DVD-R / MBI01RG40 / 200150 DVDMINUSR 16X / 6208D5111797 3 G

Y1 / Maxell BQ 8x DVD-R / MXLRG03 / N/A / M5HJ095B
Y2 / Maxell BQ 8x DVD-R / MXLRG03 / N/A / M5HJ095B
Y3 / Maxell BQ 8x DVD-R / MXLRG03 / N/A / M5HJ095B
Y4 / Maxell BQ 8x DVD-R / MXLRG03 / N/A / M5HJ095B
Y5 / Maxell BQ 8x DVD-R / MXLRG03 / N/A / M5HJ095B

Z1 / Maxell 16x DVD+R / RICOHJPNR03-004 /
D0127C20519R 50127-C2 / K5C02885E601RF5122705A03695/
Z2 / Maxell 16x DVD+R / RICOHJPNR03-004 /
D0127C20519R 50127-C2 / K5C02885E601RF5122705D03696/
Z3 / Maxell 16x DVD+R / RICOHJPNR03-004 /
D0127C20519R 50127-C2 / K5C02885E601RF5122705C03697/
Z4 / Maxell 16x DVD+R / RICOHJPNR03-004 /
D0127C20519R 50127-C2 / K5C02885E601RF5122705F03698/
Z5 / Maxell 16x DVD+R / RICOHJPNR03-004 /
D0127C20519R 50127-C2 / K5C02885E601RF5122705E03699/

Maxell Plus Series media was disqualified on account of it turning out to be TYG02 and not MXLRG03 as expected #-o
Last edited by dolphinius_rex on Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:25 pm, edited 31 times in total.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:21 pm

As I have *ALREADY* been asked about it, the discs will be stored in a cake box, kept in my closet while not being tested.

The point is that they will be kept in room temperature dark place, with no possability of direct sunlight. Humidity will standard vancouver indoor humidity.

If someone can tell me where to buy a device that tests for humidity, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, I'll be happy to monitor that as well.

EDIT: Thanks to AviationWiz for helping me find a humidity testing device that doesn't cost an arm and a leg :D
Last edited by dolphinius_rex on Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Darksyd2002 on Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:06 pm

I have a contact for Moser Baer media if you are interested. Just let me know.
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Postby MonsterMan on Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:20 pm

I'd like to see more of the brick-and-motar brands represented...for example, Memorex 16x DVD-R's tend to be CMC, their +R's can be RICOHJPN (good) or CMC (horrible)....


Us power-users use alot of "unbranded" media but the average Joe will use what's available at the local stores...

I'd be interested to see how well the Nexxtech's hold up...the burn quality scan's are good, but I know they're junk discs...
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Postby Ian on Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:34 pm

MonsterMan wrote:I'd like to see more of the brick-and-motar brands represented...for example, Memorex 16x DVD-R's tend to be CMC, their +R's can be RICOHJPN (good) or CMC (horrible)....


I'd like to see this as well. You can probably skip the store brands (Staples, etc) though.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:58 pm

I can look into store brands... but let's think about which ones SPECIFICALLY.

Memorex is a bit variable as to what media is carried under their name... but then again, so is Fuji and Maxell lately.

So... what brands do people want to see included?

Maxell (Consumer) (I only have 8x Japanese media, nothing current)
Memorex (I have 16x DVD-R and DVD+R)
Fuji (I only have 8x DVD-R and DVD+R)
Imation (I *THINK* I have some 16x DVD+R)
TDK (I have 16x DVD-R and DVD+R)

Keep in mind, this test WILL be limited to no more then 26 media types total, and maybe as low as 20. So things that are bumped in, will bump other things out.

Also, I already have in my possession nearly every disc of the 20 I've already listed in my first post, and the few missing items will be here quite shortly.
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Postby Ian on Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:07 pm

I'd like to see Memorex, Imation and TDK. If you can't fit in Fuji.. oh well.
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Postby MonsterMan on Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:29 pm

Memorex & TDK here. Memorex is what other people always seem to get for me when they want me to burn something...TDKs 8x DVD's are always on sale for about $7/25-pack at Circut City and they pretty well in all of my burners, so they're my "cheap" brand of choice.

And I agree about skipping the "store" brands like Staples/Office Depot discs...universal garbage, in my experinces.

Although I feel compelled to bring up Nexxtech again - for the same reason as the TDKs. Circut City always has them or TDKs on sale, and the scans from the media seem to be fairly good.

But I have zero long-term trust in that stuff, though...


This is going to be an interesting test, for sure.

Thanks for taking the time & effort to do this!!
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Postby Muchin on Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:16 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:Hey Guys, I want some opinions on how things should go for my next set of longevity tests.

Now, what I still need to decide is the following (and comments/suggestions are welcome and appreciated):

- What drives should I use to burn the discs? I'm thinking a Pioneer DVR-111, BenQ DW1655, or Plextor PX-760.
- What software should I use for testing media on the LiteON drive?

In order to be fair, please try to find the best matching drive/speed for each type of media so that all discs created will be of about the same writing quality, if possible. Hence all of the three drives, which are very good choices, or even more may be needed.

For Lite-On drives, KProbe is preferable over Nero CD-DVD Speed, IMHO, for the former is somewhat more reliable when there are differences in the results.

It will certainly be a most valuable study, my hats off to your enthusiasm and hard work ahead.
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Postby Alektron on Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:15 pm

Dear Dolphinius,

Do you mind adding x8 DVD+R Verbatim DataLifePlus? It would be very interesting to know if DataLifePlus actually conferred a testable benefit of longevity to the recorded data. Verbatim never replied to my inquiry asking for data that proves their claim of data retention.

I think that if you want to do a Longevity test, my suggestion is that you ought to bump out some of the products of multiple burn speed ratings, for instance, why have both a x8 and x16 RiDATA unless you know apriori that they use a different die type or manufacturing location?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:36 pm

Alektron wrote:Dear Dolphinius,

Do you mind adding x8 DVD+R Verbatim DataLifePlus? It would be very interesting to know if DataLifePlus actually conferred a testable benefit of longevity to the recorded data. Verbatim never replied to my inquiry asking for data that proves their claim of data retention.

I think that if you want to do a Longevity test, my suggestion is that you ought to bump out some of the products of multiple burn speed ratings, for instance, why have both a x8 and x16 RiDATA unless you know apriori that they use a different die type or manufacturing location?


The specific reason for RiData 8x and 16x DVD-R is because the dye used in the RiData 16x DVD-R is supplied by Fuji, and is supposed to be MUCH better then the G05 dye, that has a reputation for dying rather quickly. Now I *AM* tempted to drop the 8x DVD+Rs from RiData... but still thinking about that.

As for Verbatim DatalifePlus, it's REALLY hard to differentiate between regular Verbatim and DatalifePlus Verbatim in North America. With CD-Rs it's quite simple, but with DVDRs it's different. I think in Europe the two are MUCH better seperated even with DVDs though.
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Postby aviationwiz on Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:33 pm

I'd use either the PX-760 or the DW1655 to do the burning, as Pioneer has seemingly lost a bit of market share on DVD Burners since the early days.

As for the media, I'd say test all the TY, as they have a reputation for being some of the best discs, so that needs to be tested out. I'd also say some Memorex and TDK discs would be good for the brands to test. Perhaps toss out the Sony if need be, and I'd agree on tossing out the Ritek 8x DVD+R, no reason for it.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:47 pm

aviationwiz wrote:Perhaps toss out the Sony if need be, and I'd agree on tossing out the Ritek 8x DVD+R, no reason for it.


I think Sony might be sad if I did that...
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:14 pm

I have just confirmed that Q Media Solutions has agreed to donate time on their CATS Analyzer for this longevity study. Only one disc of each type will be tested (due to time constraints). More info as it arises! :D
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Postby MacClipper on Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:29 pm

Hi dolphin,

If you want the maximum benefit of the results from such a prospective study in 2 years' time, I propose that you drop most of the 8x media and concentrate more on 16x media.

Reason - in 2 years' time, most manufacturers would have EOLed the 8x media but the 16x versions should still be around for us to make use of your results. Media speed seems to have maxxed at 16x so we are unlikely to see this dropped altogether.

Looking back the past 2-3 years, we can see the 2/2.4x and 4x media are mostly obsolete and any retrospective study like mine have rather limited practical application since I can't buy the 'good' durable media I have uncovered in my study.

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:57 pm

Hey MacClipper,

I know what you are saying, but I've got some reasons for most of the 8x discs being tested:

#1 - Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD-R - TY is considered top quality, but my past longevity tests scored TY 8x very low, now that I'm doing a more controlled test, I want to see how these stand up.
#2 - Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD+R - Same reason as TY 8x DVD-Rs
#5 - Verbatim Archival 8x DVD-R (Gold with silver reflective layer) - These only come in 8x right now, and I want to test their archivability.
#8 - Maxell Plus Series 8x DVD-R - Maxell's Plus Series is only available in 8x, and Maxell has no immediate plans of releasing a 16x disc in this line. Maxell's media has proven to be INCREDIBLY stable in my previous tests, and I want to see how it holds up when tested in a more controlled study
#9 - Maxell BQ Series (with hardend coating) 8x DVD-R - I want to see if the BQ series offers any longevity advantage over the Plus Series from Maxell... this is a comparison of hard coating vs. regular
#10 - Delkin Archival Gold (with hardend coating) 8x DVD-R - Same reason as Verbatim Gold Archival 8x DVD-R
#11 - Emtec 4x DVD+R Gold - Same reason as Verbatim Gold and Delkin Gold
#14 - RiData 8x DVD-R - RiData 8x DVD-Rs are known for a ~2 year lifespan already, but I want to directly compare RiData 8x DVD-R vs. RiData 16x DVD-R, which is supposed to be much better in terms of lifespan.
#15 - RiData 8x DVD+R - I may just drop this, haven't decided yet

So yeah... there's 1 8x DVD+R that I might decide to drop from the final grouping. This isn't written in stone yet by ANY means. I'm still waiting on getting samples from various companies/people, so some things are still dependant on those shipments.
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Postby Alektron on Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:35 pm

I'd still like to see the DataLifePlus results, as nobody as shown ANY data about the data retention capability of these discs.

As for Verbatim DatalifePlus, it's REALLY hard to differentiate between regular Verbatim and DatalifePlus Verbatim in North America.


I don't get what you mean. It's hard to differentiate the quality difference, or hard to visually distinguish the two?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:32 pm

Alektron wrote:I don't get what you mean. It's hard to differentiate the quality difference, or hard to visually distinguish the two?


Well basically, on the big master list of all products "Verbatim" in North America, the DVDR media that is decidely labelled as "DataLifePlus" as opposed to "Datalife" or simply "Verbatim" is selected in a "willy-nilly" type manner almost. There is no rhyme or reason to it that I can discover. I don't think there *IS* a difference between Datalife or DatalifePlus in Verbatim DVDR media.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:36 pm

The first post has been updated to include details of 2 of the drives purchased to be used in this test. The BenQ DW1650 and the Pioneer DVR-111. (I'm currently playing with the thought of a third burner as well.)

My idea currently is to record a disc in the Pioneer DVR-111 (running latest firmware), at the rated speed, or failing that option, the automatically selected speed of the drive. In most cases I expect 16x media will be burned at 8x or 12x (it *IS* a Pioneer after all!!).

For the BenQ DW1650 I was thinking either the same, or set it to OverSpeed mode with WOPC and SolidBurn also enabled, and just let the drive decide what each disc can take... although the Gold Archival media might suffer GREATLY from doing this (because of the poor reflectivity of gold).

a third burner is still pending... I'll give more details on it when I have more to report :wink:

Edit: Third burner is now purchased:
Panasonic Stand-alone DVD Recorder (DMRES25S)

The purpose is to also record the discs in real time (i.e. 1x), or as close to it as I can come. The Panasonic recorder was chosen for it's wide range of supported recordable formats (DVD-R/RW/DL, DVD+R/RW/DL, and DVD-RAM), as well as it's ability to upconvert DVDs through an HDMI cable and compatible HDTV (which I'll be buying later this year :P ).
Last edited by dolphinius_rex on Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby MonsterMan on Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:45 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:a third burner is still pending... I'll give more details on it when I have more to report :wink:


Hmm...Samsung 182? Newegg has 'em for $34 :wink:
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:55 pm

MonsterMan wrote:
dolphinius_rex wrote:a third burner is still pending... I'll give more details on it when I have more to report :wink:


Hmm...Samsung 182? Newegg has 'em for $34 :wink:


Nope, I went with a stand-alone Panasonic Recorder for real-time recording :wink:
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Postby MediumRare on Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:19 am

I think CMC and MBIL are important candidates! Have you thought of adding DL media (Verbatim) to the test?
dolphinius_rex wrote:What software should I use for testing media on the LiteON drive?

I wanted to finish my Introduction to DVDScan before posting here. Now that it's done, I can justify half of my recommendation: use DVDScan for jitter tests (save the results as a text file as well). Use the latest official firmware YS0Z or one of the test firmware flavours.

The other half is: use KProbe for PI/PIF scanning, make sure to save the text summary and save the results as a RAW file in addition to a screenshot. The possiblity for external analysis of the results is the main reason. Detailed justification will have to wait until I get back from my vacation (I'm leaving for 3 weeks in Saskatchewan this weeK).

I'm looking forward to your tests!

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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:00 pm

All 3 of my DVD burners/recorders that I'll be using in this test have now been installed. I am now commensing with some burn tests to make sure the drives are not faulty or defective. Also, the Panasonic DVD Recorder is awesome :wink:

I should also mention that I'm keeping the first post of this topic up to date. As things change, or news becomes available, I have and will continue to post it there.
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Postby [buck] on Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:59 pm

This test is looking to be really great considering the CATS testing and all :D

Everything looks fine, but there's a few media types I'd really like to see tested. I think it's important that media from most of the major manufacturers is included, and based on the current list, it appears to me that Prodisc, Ricoh, and Daxon is missing. I'm suggesting something like Maxell branded RICOHJPNR03, Maxell or Fuji branded PRODISCF02 or R05, and BenQ branded DAXONAZ3. I'd also really like to see the RiData branded RITEKR04 swapped for RITEKR05 or P16, seeing how it seems to have been replaced by those two MIDs (alternatively, it could just be dropped completely in favour of something else).

I realize that in order for any of the media types I'd like to see to be included, other will have to be bumped, so I have a few suggestions as to what could be bumped:

-RiData 8X DVD+R (RITEKR03) - this MID really wouldn't have a whole lot of relevence two years down the line, and I think it would be much more valuable if used for 16X Prodisc/Ricoh/Daxon.

-Either Imation 16X DVD+R, or Imation 16X DVD-R, or MBIL 16X DVD+R, depending on the country of origin of the Imation, so we don't have MID overlaps, if that makes any sense. :-?

My ideal list would look like something like this I think:

#1 - Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD-R
#2 - Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD+R
#3 - Taiyo Yuden 16x DVD-R
#4 - Taiyo Yuden 16x DVD+R
#5 - Verbatim Archival 8x DVD-R
#6 - Verbatim 16x DVD-R
#7 - Verbatim 16x DVD+R
#8 - Maxell Plus Series 8x DVD-R
#9 - Maxell BQ Series (with hardend coating) 8x DVD-R
#10 - Delkin Archival Gold (with hardend coating) 8x DVD-R
#11 - Emtec 4x DVD+R Gold
#12 - Acro Circle 16x DVD-R
#13 - Acro Circle 16x DVD+R
#14 - RiData 8x DVD-R
#15 - RiData 16x DVD-R
#16 - RiData 16x DVD+R (RITEKR05 or RITEKP16 only - RITEKR05 can be found under the Fuji brand if necessary)
#17 - Maxell 16X DVD+R (RICOHJPNR03)
#18 - Sony 16x DVD-R
#19 - Sony 16x DVD+R
#20 - MAM-A 16x Gold Archival DVD-R
#21 - TDK 16x DVD-R
#22 - TDK 16x DVD+R (CMC code)
#23 - Imation 16x DVD-R (CMC code)
#24 - Imation 16x DVD+R (MBI code)
#25 - Moser Baer 16x DVD-R
#26 - BenQ 16X DVD+R (DAXONAZ3)
#27 - Maxell or Fuji 16X DVD-R (PRODISCF02)

That's one disc too many, so something would have to go. I'm thinking Imation 16X DVD-R (CMCMAGAM3) maybe?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:04 pm

you make some good arguments [buck].... but I need to keep the total media amount to no more then 26.

All of a sudden I also have the urge to find some way to include Princo media :lol:
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