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Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

General discussion about recordable CD, DVD and BD media and write quality testing.

Postby frank1 on Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:23 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:

I posted a scan of my Maxell BQ 8x DVD-R results in the media tests section, and commented on it in the media quality discussion section. It's worth checking out :wink:
I found your scans of Maxell BQ 8x DVD-R burned with a Pioneer 111D here:
http://www.cdrlabs.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ght=maxell

But I have not been able to find your comments on it in the media quality discussion section.
Could you please link them for me ?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:35 am

Comments on my Longevity Study are mostly being held back at this point.... I don't want to talk about trends based on such a small sampling really....

*BUT*

I can say that I'm actively scanning the media again... as I type this actually :P (on another PC). And once I'm done, I plan to release my results. Everything I'm able to after the lost media that is. It might take me a while to put this together, I'm VERY busy now, having mostly unexpectedly developed a life #-o

But yes, stuff is once again moving forward, and things are in the works. Some stuff will be surprising, other stuff will not. This will likely be my last major DVD related project. Although I don't plan to throw out these discs at any time, so even once results are released, I'll periodically check up on them most likely.

Anyways, I'll post more when there's more to post ^_^
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Postby Scour on Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:39 pm

I think it´s a problem because older media isnt avaible, newer media especially Verbatim are made in different countris. So it´s hard to say media 1 is the best, it varies often
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby MMMark on Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:09 pm

Thurs. 08/08/14 19:08 EDT
post #1

Hi. This is my first post to this forum, and I'm trying to learn about media and DVD burning (just installed my first DVD burner about a week ago, and I've never made a DVD, if you can believe it). I'm very interested in the test results of the "archival gold" DVD media but can't find them.

Where is the "subscriber's section", and where are your initial testing data?

How can this be determined?
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby RJW on Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:06 pm

MMMark wrote:
How can this be determined?


Welcome.

It can be determined from the serial number in the center hub of the disc that those Verbatim Ultralife Gold disc's were made by Prodisc.
Trying to make something "foolproof" only forces nature to make a better fool.
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby MMMark on Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:24 pm

Mon. 08/08/25 20:23 EDT
.post #3

Thanks, RJW, for the welcome, and the response. What, specifically, about the serial number indicates the manufacturer? For example, do all ProDisc DVDs have very similar serial numbers, all starting or ending with a particular string? How could I verify this, or where could I see a list of serial number patterns?

Also, any idea where I could find the "subscriber's section", or the results of the gold media testing?
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby RJW on Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:14 am

Subscribers section I think is the section which is only there for subscribers. Cdrlabs has a subscribers section. As a extra for the people who pay sometimes early rough draft test results are put up there.
how-subscribe-t20337.html

On the other subject.
Most manufacturers have certain serial number styles which can be identified.
All prodisc DVDs have a very similar patern. It's the build up.

For verbatim media.

Made in Taiwan , made by CMC Magnetics, serial consists of 16 Symbols, starting with 3 Letters such as MAH, PAP, PAH, MAD
Made in Taiwan , made by Prodisc, serials consists of + or - in the Middle between 2 9 symbol blocks
Made in India, made by Moser Baer India, serial consists of 7 numbers +R/-R(description for the type) + 2 Letters + 5 symbols
Singapore Mitsubishi Chemical Corp./Verbatim serial consists of 14 symbols

Examples will follow later.
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby frank1 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:45 am

I first did not know where to post this but after thinking about it I suppose that here is one of the best places to get the most interesting comments from experts …


According to this recent news here :
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/De ... wsId=24974
an association called CDs21 solutions announced plans to contribute in the development of a longevity certification program of DVD +R and DVD-R media.
« They proposed a certification for all those media that will prove to be reliable at least for 30 years.
Today, the majority of DVD disc makers claim that their discs are reliable for more than 50 years »



So I like you to comment about this study: do we really need now a study like that ?
Why choosing a duration of 30 years ?

My first thinking is:

1°) The study to be made in Japan has not started yet and by the time their certification logo will eventually be on a package in Europe or US, do you think that the media we will get is going in some way to have similar quality to the samples to be tested in Japan ?
You ca have a look about how they identify media on their web site here:
http://www.cds21solutions.org/en/techinfo/index.html


2°) If a DVD burn has let say PIE max =20 it will probably last 30 years on a well manufactured media (good dye, good bounding, . . . )
But if the initial burn has PIE max in the range of 200 or more, how long will it remain readable ?
So when it is said:
« The certification can be printed on the package of the DVD recordable discs. As a result, end-users will be able to select the media life expectancy best suited to their application requirements »
it will be more or less an illusion for the buyer to trust only the certification logo.


3°) May be you could also add comments on the the specific methodology that is going to be used for the test and what it means in real life of end-users


Thanks a lot in advance
Last edited by frank1 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:18 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby frank1 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:51 am

I could also point out to 2 articles about opticals disc longevity that were published recently in french magazines
(2 magazines meant for a large public, not specialized like the german C't mag)

But this might be ... of little interest for you ?
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby RJW on Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:56 am

frank1 wrote:I could also point out to 2 articles about opticals disc longevity that were published recently in french magazines
(2 magazines meant for a large public, not specialized like the german C't mag)

But this might be ... of little interest for you ?


Not of little interest for me. I'm interested. Any stability data is welcome.
I alllready find out that with the current variations in product quality the long longlivety is affected.
So we will need to have as much as possible data to know which disc's are best when it comes to archiving.
Most people do not have access to a climate chamber to do continuate testing and real life testing can be slow and suprising in a bad way.
So the only option to give us a idea of which media is performing consistant nicely is by looking at the data that is allready available somewhere.

So I wouldd be happy with information from a French Consumer magazine.
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby Scour on Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:40 am

CD-R or DVD+/-R?

ATM i use CD-R only for music in my car. But I burn many DVDs with things I recorded from TV, Dokus and series you don´t find that easylly on Amazon & Co. For real important stuff I have a backup on a HDD, too
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby frank1 on Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:40 am

In fact the aim of my posts above was to have some comments about the methodology that CDCDs21 is going to use:
frank1 wrote: 3°) May be you could also add comments on the the specific methodology that is going to be used for the test and what it means in real life of end-users



And my allusion to what has been published in french was only a kind of joke only to show
how poor the content of these 2 articles in fact is ..

But because it’s you RJW, I will make some more comments about these articles ...
RJW wrote: . . . So I would be happy with information from a French Consumer magazine.
Last edited by frank1 on Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:00 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby frank1 on Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:42 am

The 1st article was published in a weekly magazine called Micro-Hebdo on January the 8th 2009.

You can find a scan of the 2 pages of the original article (in french) on Gravure News here:
http://forum.gravure-news.com/duree-de- ... t29285.htm

Of course it is written in french and in fact there is no experimental data at all in this article only some general talking.
There is a reference to a statement of Jacques Perdereau from the National Metrology Laboratory (LNE), statement saying that the accelerated aging tests are not a proof for real live aging of burned discs.

The only interesting little things are the 2 little inserts:
« Blu-Ray: l’avenir du stockage optique ? »
and :
« Dénichez les meilleurs disques optiques »

This 2nd insert is illustrated with a magnifying glass and suggest that in order to identify propely blank medias you should use it and read the inner and outer hub indications in combination with the use of DVD Identifier.
He also gives some indications about more resistant discs: Taiyo Yuden, genuine TDK TTH01, Maxell Protek and some genuine RicohJPN codes.
In fact the journalist wrote this insert after contacting me trough the internet and I wrote for him a long summary of this complew question (also published in french somewhere else on the web).


After the publishing of this article nothing really happened:
1°) No contact from readers of Micro-Hebdo
2°) No real discussion in the thread at Gravure News here:
http://forum.gravure-news.com/duree-de- ... t29285.htm
3°) And I got no further specific questioning on the forum where I published my summary:
http://forum.telecharger.01net.com/micr ... ges-1.html
I am thinking about retiring my « summary-article » from the net and then eventually re-writing it completely.

I looks like the questions of correct identifying of blanks and aging of burned media is far too complex and esoteric for the large french public.
All they ask for is some links to good cheap blank medias sold on online shops ...

So that is all so far about the 1st article.
Last edited by frank1 on Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:16 am, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby frank1 on Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:49 am

The second article was published in a very important french « all around » consumer magazine:
'Que choisir' n°468 of march 2009

AFAIK there is no « fac similé » of the article available on the net.
The article is based on a climatic stability test (250, 500 et 1.000 hours) of 10 brands of DVD-R and 8 brands of DVD-RW bought from usual stores and supermarkets.
The conclusion of this article is a classification by brands

All I can say is that the blank media tested are horribly badly identified (except maybe brands like Verbatim and Sony).
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby Scour on Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:36 pm

But Sony doesn´t produce media itself, they buy from Daxon, i guess
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby frank1 on Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:47 am

I just said that Verbatim or Sony are « more or less well identified » because when you buy these brands
you get every time more or less the same quality
on the opposite to others brands tested by 'Que Choisir' (like Emtec for example)
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby frank1 on Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:49 am

frank1 wrote:The only interesting little things are the 2 little inserts:
. . . .

and:
« Dénichez les meilleurs disques optiques »

This 2nd insert is illustrated with a magnifying glass and suggest that in order to identify propely blank medias you should use it and read the inner and outer hub indications in combination with the use of DVD Identifier.
He also gives some indications about more resistant discs: Taiyo Yuden, genuine TDK TTH01, Maxell Protek and some genuine RicohJPN codes.
. . . .

Image
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby Scour on Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:22 pm

I think best method is to copy important data after 2-3 years on other medium
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Re: Dolphin Longevity Test 3.0 Prep

Postby happy hopping on Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:21 am

Is there a longevity test for those so-called achieve grade BD-R? If so, what country make them? Who's the best?
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