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How Bush handles New Orleans

Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:44 pm

This is something one of my friends sent me... I couldn't help but pass it on!
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Postby Boba_Fett on Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:09 pm

Hmm... very inappropriate and callous. I don't find anything funny about making fun of a president who is doing everything he can to clean up one of the worst natural disasters we've had in a century. I don't recall making light of the asian tsunami event almost a year ago...
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Postby ClayBuster on Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:47 pm

He's Canadian! What did you expect? :evil:
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Postby Ian on Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:34 pm

Boba_Fett wrote:Hmm... very inappropriate and callous. I don't find anything funny about making fun of a president who is doing everything he can to clean up one of the worst natural disasters we've had in a century. I don't recall making light of the asian tsunami event almost a year ago...


I don't think Kanye West would agree with you. :wink:
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Postby wicked1 on Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:14 pm

LOL right on dolphin dude. I had to print that one and show a few friends of mine. They all laughed their asses off. Bush is unanimously hated around these parts.
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Postby Boba_Fett on Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:24 pm

Ian wrote:
I don't think Kanye West would agree with you. :wink:


Do a lot of people agree with that moron? Last time I checked, he has made 2 incredibly ludicrous statements:

1. He thinks the US gov. made the AIDS virus to destroy the black community.

2. He thinks the US gov. invented crack cocaine to destroy the black community.

Kanye needs to move back to Mars...


To bad there are so many Bush haters around here :x
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:28 pm

Boba_Fett wrote:Hmm... very inappropriate and callous. I don't find anything funny about making fun of a president who is doing everything he can to clean up one of the worst natural disasters we've had in a century. I don't recall making light of the asian tsunami event almost a year ago...


I didn't post it to offend anyone, and I'm sorry if that's how you took it. I realize the flooding and relative destruction of New Orleans is a very serious matter, and my post was not meant in an attempt to lessen the seriousness of the event at all. I was merely passing on a picture that I myself had found a little funny, and thought other people might also think funny. If you recall, there were many similar things done when 9/11 occured as well.
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Postby Boba_Fett on Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:10 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:
Boba_Fett wrote:Hmm... very inappropriate and callous. I don't find anything funny about making fun of a president who is doing everything he can to clean up one of the worst natural disasters we've had in a century. I don't recall making light of the asian tsunami event almost a year ago...


I didn't post it to offend anyone, and I'm sorry if that's how you took it. I realize the flooding and relative destruction of New Orleans is a very serious matter, and my post was not meant in an attempt to lessen the seriousness of the event at all. I was merely passing on a picture that I myself had found a little funny, and thought other people might also think funny. If you recall, there were many similar things done when 9/11 occured as well.


This is true. Sorry for making a big deal out of it...
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:12 am

Boba_Fett wrote:This is true. Sorry for making a big deal out of it...


No worries! Your heart's in the right place :)
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Postby Ian on Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:48 am

Boba_Fett wrote:Do a lot of people agree with that moron?


As a rapper, I have a lot of respect for the guy. Instead of rapping about rolling on dubs or busting caps, he usually addresses issues in the world. I will admit though that he does pull a lot of crazy stuff out of his ass.
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Postby CowboySlim on Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:05 am

Who is this Kanye West that everyone is talking about? Never heard of him.

Monica Lewinsky's new boyfriend?
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Postby Ian on Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:33 pm

CowboySlim wrote:Who is this Kanye West that everyone is talking about? Never heard of him.


He's the guy that was on TV saying that Bush hates black people.
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Postby Boba_Fett on Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:51 pm

Ian wrote:
Boba_Fett wrote:Do a lot of people agree with that moron?


As a rapper, I have a lot of respect for the guy. Instead of rapping about rolling on dubs or busting caps, he usually addresses issues in the world. I will admit though that he does pull a lot of crazy stuff out of his ass.


ROFL, you're a rapper? Care to lay down a few CD-R rhymes?
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Postby stix on Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:15 pm

Great Photo! It says it all. Very appropriate!!
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Postby Ian on Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:32 pm

Boba_Fett wrote:ROFL, you're a rapper? Care to lay down a few CD-R rhymes?


lol.. I'm gonna be the next Eminem.

I meant him as a rapper.
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Postby CowboySlim on Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:26 pm

Ian wrote:
CowboySlim wrote:Who is this Kanye West that everyone is talking about? Never heard of him.


He's the guy that was on TV saying that Bush hates black people.


Oh yeah, but I thought that was Jesse Sharpton.
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Postby Boba_Fett on Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:04 am

stix wrote:Great Photo! It says it all. Very appropriate!!
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Postby code65536 on Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:14 pm

Boba_Fett wrote:I don't recall making light of the asian tsunami event almost a year ago...

But when the Indonesian leader who was in charge of the tsunami starts to criticize Bush over Katrina...

I think that the country has a lot of frustration over a lot of things--Iraq, the perception that the economy isn't really recovering despite the GDP numbers, etc.--and that they've been building up and Katrina burst not just the levees, but also the walls that have been holding that pent-up frustration back. So it may seem unfair that people are picking on Bush so much, but I think a big part of that is not just Katrina but also things past.

Overall, I think that this is great; it finally exposes that Bush is nothing once his Rove & Co. Brainwash Machine (TM) doesn't work. Maybe this will, in time, make way for more qualified moderates, like McCain (a testament to how Rove & Co. can be used against Republicans as well), Powell, or Clark.
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Postby dodecahedron on Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:26 pm

seeing the pictures, the news-clips, reading the newspaper reports - it is heartbreaking.

but we live in a cynical world and we've seen all of this before.

it's probably most difficult to see this, for Americans - because it's America, your own country. for other from the First World countries - because it's America. we're all used to seeing such things in Third World countries. and when it happens there we're not quite so shocked and get over it more easily.

sad, but i believe true.

as for the Bush issue, i think this is a vent for people to let out their anger at Bush, anger for many reason, the current catastrophe is only one. i agree that he should have reacted more swiftly and done a better job of it, but i honestly don't think it would have been all that much different if another President were presiding. Democrat or Republican.
i also think no-one quite foresaw how bad it was gonna get.

it's also saddening to see that America, in many respects the most affluent and powerful country in the world, can do such a bad job. and again i can't see that all of the fault lies with Bush.



off topic: (my personal rant, sorry in advance.)

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Postby CowboySlim on Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:13 pm

it's probably most difficult to see this, for Americans - because it's America, your own country. for other from the First World countries - because it's America. we're all used to seeing such things in Third World countries. and when it happens there we're not quite so shocked and get over it more easily.


Actually, we are not 100% a 1st world country. We have pockets of the 3rd world in most of the larger cities. In the interest of political correctness, I'll not expand on that.


it's also saddening to see that America, in many respects the most affluent and powerful country in the world, can do such a bad job. and again i can't see that all of the fault lies with Bush.


Good perception, Dode. It has nothing to do with Bush. It only provided those who hate Bush regardless an opportunity to vent.

It has everything to do with local, state and federal bureaucracies and their inherent ineptitude. Why would anyone think that FEMA, with respect to basic competency, be any better than the United States Postal Service? The only difference is in the names. There is 10 times more difference between Coke and Pepsi.
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Postby Justin42 on Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:05 pm

I won't wade too deep into this one (no pun intended) but I live in earthquake country, and I don't expect the government to come in and help me immediately. Why should I? Have you ever been to the DMV? Deal with getting a passport? Had a question with the IRS? Which of those experiences have been handled with competance, speed, and an overall pleasant feeling? Why do people suddenly expect FEMA to be this streamlined, competant, organized group within the government? There's no other part of the government like that, FEMA doesn't have anyone to learn from. ;) But seriously, expecting the government (Especially the feds) to suddenly rush in and be able to help everyone is a little unrealistic.

They've always told us in CA to be able to be *on your own* for 3-7 days after a quake. To stockpile food, medical supplies, water, etc, planning for the fact there is a chance that no one will be there for you. I guess the total loss of infrastructure is a bit more expected in a quake than after a hurricane, which while can be deadly, very rarely decimate a city.

I think there is PLENTY of blame to go around. I think everyone was thinking everyone else would help, and the problems kept getting worse instead of better before anyone realised that. That is what government is good for: assigning blame and pointing fingers.

Should they be there to help? ABSOLUTELY. It's what the government is for IMHO -- providing things that average citizens on their own couldn't do. Recovery from something like this is a BIG DEAL and needs to have government come in. But the government is much more set up to deal with the long term grind, paperwork, loans, etc, than the first 48 hours.
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Postby dodecahedron on Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:32 pm

like you said you live in earthquake country, so you're more or less expecting it to happen every once in a while.
i don't think New Orleans is a regular hurricane target, is it ?

also, Katrina was a particularly bad case, and everyone knew it was coming. just didn't prepare for it.
heard the Mayor on a TV interview saying himself he should have been more insistent on making people leave.
read in today's paper about a family who survived, paralized mom + 2 daughters, the grandma died. they didn't leave because the didn't want to leave the pets behind.
really.

an interesting moment in a TV film i saw today. those disaster-type films. this one about a forest fire, and it destroys a town. the entire town is evacuated. a guy there refuses to leave the house and with his kids he tries to protect the house. at some point a fire-captain tells him to leave and he says "it's my house, i won't let you write it off".
so the fireman replies "i'm going to ask you to fill in these".
"what are these?"
"toe-tags".

back to what you said about being prepared to make it on your own for 3-7 days:
quite right. but if a disaster should take place, and especially if it was a really bad one, don't you want to know that the government/federal/local/whatever rescue forces would get going right away. not days after it happened - right away!
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:26 pm

dodecahedron wrote:like you said you live in earthquake country, so you're more or less expecting it to happen every once in a while.
i don't think New Orleans is a regular hurricane target, is it ?


I believe New Orleans is about 3 metres below sea level... so if its' not a regular hurricane target, then it *IS* a regular massive flooding target. They've been VERY lucky for some time, but their luck ran out. The same will probably happen to Richmond and Delta up here in Greater Vancouver (BC, Canada for those of you who don't know Canada), eventually I suspect. It seems that many people in power just don't understand the flaw of building cities below sea level, and then not giving them adequate funding for protection against nature.
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Postby code65536 on Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:51 pm

CowboySlim wrote:It has everything to do with local, state and federal bureaucracies and their inherent ineptitude. Why would anyone think that FEMA, with respect to basic competency, be any better than the United States Postal Service? The only difference is in the names. There is 10 times more difference between Coke and Pepsi.

Yep. But I think that venting the frustration is good, even if it's for the wrong reasons.

I guess what disillusioned a lot of people, including me, is that Bush is just another politician. I remember back in 2000 when Bush won, and I was thinking, "well, I didn't vote for him, but I guess it won't be *that* bad because he peppered his campaign with all sorts of promises to cut down on bureaucracy, red tape, pork, etc., and he's gotta live up to some of those promises, right?" Haha, that was naive of me back then. And then to hear about how the top FEMA guys got their jobs because they're friends of friends of Bush is just frustrating because it's just one more politician who claims to not be a politician but who really is.

So even if it's for the wrong reasons, I really hope that Katrina seriously wounds Bush because I am really hoping for someone who isn't a snake like Bush. Who knows, maybe McCain or Powell or Clark would be just as corrupted if he gets power. *shrug*
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Postby bill on Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:46 pm

Just to get the sequence of events correct and to find out who is responsible I did a little reading.
The local and state governments are responsible for protecting their populace. If the federal government is invited it may assist as necessary. I know it has become cloudy over the years but there is a definite separation of powers in our constitution..


FEMAs response was lousy and President Bush should have pushed Governor Blanco hard but read the following sequence of events. Let me know what you think.

Two days before the Katrina made landfall on the gulf coast President Bush declares a national emergency. That declaration allows federal agencies preposition supplies and personnel.

FYI
From Mayor Nagin's office;
III. EVACUATION ORDER

A. Authority

As established by the City of New Orleans Charter, the government has jurisdiction and responsibility in disaster response. City government shall coordinate its efforts through the Office of Emergency Preparedness

The authority to order the evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane is conferred to the Governor by Louisiana Statute. The Governor is granted the power to direct and compel the evacuation of all or part of the population from a stricken or threatened area within the State, if he deems this action necessary for the preservation of life or other disaster mitigation, response or recovery. The same power to order an evacuation conferred upon the Governor is also delegated to each political subdivision of the State by Executive Order. This authority empowers the chief elected official of New Orleans, the Mayor of New Orleans, to order the evacuation of the parish residents threatened by an approaching hurricane.

B. Issuance of Evacuation Orders

The person responsible for recognition of hurricane related preparation needs and for the issuance of an evacuation order is the Mayor of the City of New Orleans. Concerning preparation needs and the issuance of an evacuation order, The Office of Emergency Preparedness should keep the Mayor advised.

Katrina made landfall on the 29th.

Why September 1st? Governor Blanco's office; PDF


Why September 2nd? Release for medical aid workers
Governor Blanco's office PDF

And she still can't get off her arse Washington Times article.


Beyond Katrina and government ineptitude. I am shocked how many people think it's acceptable to steal nonfood items. Being poor is no excuse for shitty behavior, no matter what we learned in psyc 101 class.
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