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Lite-On LTD-166S Differences

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Postby vbl117 on Mon Nov 25, 2002 3:35 pm

Some more remarks :

My dvd drive was/is set as master on the channel IDE 2 and my motherboard is an Epox 8KTA3 ( VIA KT133A ) . Without additionals IDE controllers .

I had forgotten ! I ve made the test and the UDMA 0 issue exists too with UDMA 100 cable.

I ve just sent a report to Lite-On .
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Postby vio_man on Mon Nov 25, 2002 9:26 pm

There aren't no specific ATA100 or ATA133 cables. ATA 66/100/133 all use the same 80wire cable.

I will try it on my machine.

Thank you.
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Postby mike_s104 on Mon Nov 25, 2002 11:13 pm

I just ran into this a few mins ago and came here to check if anyone else has too. I didn't know that the 166S would do UDMA3. I installed it last night, replacing an older 163 LiteOn which I am going to put into an older machine. I just used the 40pin cable like I have always used for DVD and CD-ROMs. the BIOS showed it in Mode 2 and after fooling with WinXP, it showed it as such also. tonight I was trying to fix another problem and had gotten the VIA IDE Miniport driver (file name IDE_MPD3014.zip). after installing it and rebooting, I launched the DMA Tool. it shows all the info you would ever want to see about the controller and the drives. it said the 166S would do mode 3. knowing that ATA66 needed an 80pin cable I turned the machine off and replaced it. upon POST, the BIOS showed it in mode 3. in WinXP I ran the DMA Tool and it showed it as such too.

you might want to see if you mothboard can handle DMA 66. seeing that using an 80pin ATA66\100\133 puts it in mode 0, I would check the mobo specs.

my motherboard is an Asus A7M266 with the beta BIOS verion 1008.
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Motherboard

Postby vbl117 on Tue Nov 26, 2002 6:56 am

"all use the same 80wire cable. "

Yes , i know it . But their specifications are a bit different . I was wondering if it was an specific issue between my UDMA 100 controller and the UDMA 133 cable .

"if you motherboard can handle DMA 66"

Yes , it can ( the two IDE controllers can support up to UDMA 100 ) . I didn't say LTD-166S does not support DMA MODE 3 but that i have an issue trying to access this mode with some 80 pins cable .
Link to motherboard specifications :
http://www.epox.com/html/motherboard.as ... TA3&lang=1

My PC :

Windows XP pro with service pack 1
Epox 8kta3 ( chipset via kt133a ) not overclocked , LAST BIOS : 7/29/2002 .
The DVD drive had been flashed before this issue ( firmware version : DSOB )
Duron 750 mhz
kyro1 64 Mo powercolor
Memory 128 Mo Sdram pc 100
HD Seagate 20 Go 7200 tpm UDMA 100

I ll try as you suggested to change the Via IDE driver .
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Postby vbl117 on Tue Nov 26, 2002 8:53 am

Even with IDE TOOLS the utlity installed by/with the Via IDE Miniport drivers i can't force UDMA in any case .
I ll keep IDE TOOLS and the Via IDE Miniport because they have more options than Microsoft drivers ( setting a transfert mode more accurately ) and because they give info about transfert mode suppported by peripherals ( this drive supports up to DMA 3 though i have an issue trying to set this drive in this transfert mode ) .
Perhaps vio-man should send too a report to lite-on .

I ll wait for the future firmware ( it can be both windows xp , motherboard and drive fault but the device can force the DMA MODE )
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Postby mike_s104 on Wed Nov 27, 2002 8:14 pm

something else I just thought about:

try installing the problem drive on another controller, either on the same machine or in a different computer. see if the problem follows.
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Postby vbl117 on Fri Nov 29, 2002 10:08 am

- Set my drive as slave on the primary IDE channel ( same issue and the IDE miniport driver showed UDMA mode 5 , so i had to uninstall them to see real transfert mode with microsoft s drivers ) .
- Set my drive as Secondary master ( without the slave burner ) with a 80 pin ( udma 100 ) cable on my second computer . Tested drive with DVD speed because win 98 does not show transfert mode .
It was working ( 11X DVD reading speed average ) .
So transfert speed was probably UDMA 2 or 3 but i could not check it exactly .
So there is a compatibility issue between the drive and the motherboard or the OS ( or both of them ) .

Vio-man , what is exactly your motherboard brand ?

My second pc :

Windows 98 SE
Elite K7S5A chipset SIS 735 ( last bios )
ATHLON XP 1800
ATI Rage 128 Pro 32Mo AGP
384 Mo Sdram pc 133 cas 3
Port IDE 1 :
Western Digital 40 Go 7200 tpm UDMA master
IBM 20 Go 7200 tpm UDMA 66 slave
Port IDE 2 :
cd-rom BCD 36X max UDMA 33 master
burner Matshita 4X slave

Can i expect a new firmware to correct this ? . Because i don t want to put my DVD Drive on the second pc and in the future i ll purchase a new peripheral ( 6 months or a bit more ) .
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Postby vio_man on Wed Dec 04, 2002 4:04 pm

Let's see if this new firmware fixes the problem :-?
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New firmware fixes it!!!

Postby vio_man on Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:32 pm

I've downloaded the DS0F firmware for the former LiteOn LTD-166S, now
called JLMS XJ-HD166S. It fixes the UDMA 0 bug, now my drive is detected
correctly as UDMA 33. But the Region Reset Utility does not work with
this new firmware. The drive remains RPC II.
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Issue solved

Postby vbl117 on Thu Dec 05, 2002 5:12 am

Vio_ man uses the MSI K7T PRO2 MS6330 ( chipset VIA KT133 ) motherboard and i use the EP-8KTA3 ( chipset VIA KT133A ) .
Yesterday I have flashed my drive with DSOF firmware and made some tests .
This firmware solves the UDMA 0 issue when connecting the LTD-166S with a 80 pins cable .
Though with this firmware I wasn’t able to set the UDMA mode higher than DMA mode 2 .
. I have tried to force it uninstalling IDE channels , then uninstalling the Via IDE busmaster controller without results .
Even with the Via IDE miniport and IDETOOL I could not t succeed setting it in DMA mode 3 .
As i reported to Lite-On I think the UDMA 0 issue was due to via KT133/KT133A chipset . This chipset ( in fact his southbridge part )must have problems recognising UDMA mode 3 for CD/DVD drives ( perhaps it confuses between DMA mode 3 and DMA mode 0 ) .
So whether the new firmware desactivate UDMA mode 3 when the drive is plugged on a motherboard using KT133/KT133A chipset whether the new firmware forbid UDMA mode 3 for all LTD-166S drives .

PS : Via IDETOOL ( installed by the Via IDE miniport ) shows all transferts modes supported by the drive .
Now it doesn’t show anymore UDMA mode 3 .
But I don’t know if I can trust IDETOOL ( it can be a IDETOOL bug ) .
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Postby dodecahedron on Thu Dec 05, 2002 8:42 am

i think it more likely that it was an issue with the Lite-On firmware.
now that the firmware has been updated, no move UDMA0 (which was wrong) and also no UDMA3 (which was probably also wrong). the drive is UDMA2.

i don't know of any optical drive that is UDMA3, so it's not a problem that the VIA chipset does not recognize UDMA3 for an optical drive. so i don't think it's a problem with the chipset or a bug with VIA's driver.
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Postby vbl117 on Thu Dec 05, 2002 11:06 am

dodecahedron , you are a bit lazy .
Try to read the topic .
LTD-166S was or is an UDMA 3 drive ( the only UDMA 3 drive yes ) .
Read his specifications on Lite-On site .
And i can certify you that IDETOOL showed UDMA MODE 3 support for this drive with both original firmware and DSOB firmware .
Now with DSOF firmware UDMA MODE 3 support is no longer showed by IDETOOL .


my hypotesis can be wrong of course but u are wrong twice :
- all DMA devices support UDMA MODE 0 transfert mode though it' useless . They support it for logical reasons .
- this device is supporting or was supporting UDMA MODE 3 .

It cannot be an issue only with the firmware .
It is more probably an issue with both via chipset and lite on firmware ( or else you should have some arguments ) . Else why the same drive with the same firmware was working without the udma 0 issue when plugged to my k7s5a with a 80 pins cable ( chipset sis 735 ) ? . It was is in the topic .

It' a problem when there is a compatibility issue between an old motherboard and a DVD drive .
I could not expect from msi ( ami bios ? ) and epox ( award bios ) to make a new bios to solve the problem .
Via had not anticipated that a manufacturer could make a DVD drive supporting UDMA MODE 3.
SIS had anticipated it or they re more lucky with their chipset .
Thanks to Lite-On for releasing in a fast way this new firmware !!

It' a problem when a IDE controller does not function properly .
Who has said it was a driver problem ? Not me . In fact i have proved the contrary in the topic ( why even mention this hypothesis ? )
It cannot be a driver problem , neither a driver bug . I have the latest aspi layer , the latest via 4 in 1 and i have tried all IDE drivers possible .
Only the DVD-ROM firmware has changed to fit more to the motherboard .
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Postby vio_man on Thu Dec 05, 2002 5:14 pm

You're refering to a software problem. The UDMA 0 bug was viewable on BIOS, and therefore no driver was involved. The problem is now fixed!
I don't think you can except UDMA 3 support, it must be a bug too.

About the region free problem, it's solved. Just have to use RPCDE several times until the drive becomes RPC I :D
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Postby vbl117 on Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:26 am

Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:14 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You're refering to a software problem"

I m not referring to a software problem for my part . I say it was a problem based on the southbridge not corrected by the bios ( the two motherboards had two different bios ) .


"
. The UDMA 0 bug was viewable on BIOS, and therefore no driver was involved. The problem is now fixed! "

Yes , it's absolutely true . ( all devices can use UDMA 0 fot logical reasons but being limited to UDMA 0 is a pain )

"
I don't think you can except UDMA 3 support"

I don't except UDMA 3 support since it's useless for me .
But it could have been useful for some people having a hard disk drive on the same IDE controller .

, it must be a bug too. "

No it's not a bug ! Go to lite_on website check the drive specifications !
Read this :
http://www.jlms.com.tw/new_p_E/jlms_165X.htm

And i copy/paste :

" E-IDE Interface, Support all PIO, MW-DMA, Ultra-DMA Mode 3 ( 44.4 MB/sec ) "

Do you think still it's a bug ? Because if it' the case i'll think you are all deafs and blinds . Until you'll admit UDMA MODE 3 was not a bug since Lite_On had manufactured his drive with UDMA MODE 3 suppport i'll continue to write and talk even if the issue is corrected .
I don't love wrong ideas and ignorance ( especially when you only have to make the effort to read some specifications on a website ).

About the region free problem, it's solved. Just have to use RPCDE several times until the drive becomes RPC I

happy to know it
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New DS0F firmware for LTD-166S

Postby vio_man on Fri Dec 06, 2002 4:15 pm

This new firmware is just like a miracle. It fixes the UDMA 0
bug with 80pin flat cables, renames the drive to JLMS XJ-HD166S
and also improved the reading reliability with scratched discs.
I've done some tests and it crates less errors with a scratched
CD-R than my CD-RW drive (LG 8320B@8400B). After some attempts
with the RPCDE tool I could change the drive to RPC I.
Thank you LiteOn for making this wonderful drive. I would like
to have a LiteOn CD-RW drive but I've to sell my LG first.
I recommend everyone to get this DVD-ROM drive, even those
who think that Toshiba readers are the best. I can assure that
this model (with the latest firmware) is better than any
Toshiba.
I've heard some users complaining about the noise. I don't
think that this drive makes more noise than other drives
at the same. You can't expect to hear no noise when a disc
is spinning at 10,000rpm.
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Postby Raz0rX on Fri Dec 13, 2002 7:13 pm

Arrrgh, I still am stuck with this problem, my mobo is based on KT133a and even the BIOS detects the drive as ATA/33, but in WinXP, only Multiword DMA Mode 2 is used. I have tried the UDMA66 REG patch, tried removing secon.controller, ViA 4-in-1, and still no go! Just pisses me off.
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Postby cfitz on Fri Dec 13, 2002 7:15 pm

Did you ever try the Microsoft IDE controller driver instead of the VIA driver?

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Postby Raz0rX on Fri Dec 13, 2002 10:15 pm

Mind telling me what Microsoft IDE controller driver you ment? Did you mean the original WinXP IDE controller (w/o. installing 4-in-1)? If so, I did try that, yields the same result. But because I bought a new DVDROM, I decided to look into the problem further...
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Postby Raz0rX on Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:21 am

Finally, I put my DVDROM to primary slave, enabled UDMA33 in XP, DVD reading benchmarks look so much better :o
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Postby cfitz on Sat Dec 14, 2002 12:19 pm

Raz0rX wrote:Mind telling me what Microsoft IDE controller driver you ment? Did you mean the original WinXP IDE controller (w/o. installing 4-in-1)?

Yes, that is what I meant. I suggested it because when I installed the 4-in-1 drivers on my system (while pursuing another problem) my 166S switched from Ultra-DMA mode to just DMA mode. Switching back to the native Microsoft drivers restored the Ultra-DMA.

Glad to hear you got your drive working up to spec.

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Postby vbl117 on Sat Dec 14, 2002 7:43 pm

http://www.jlms.com.tw/new_p_E/jlms_165X.htm
the LTD-165H/LTD-166S drive specification have been changed .
Since new firmware ( DSOF ) disables udma mode 3 , specification is now UDMA mode 2 .

LTD-166S is a good drive .
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Postby Raz0rX on Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:09 pm

Oh hey, so does it mean since I am using KT133a chipset mobo, my sec.IDE channel will never support UDMA33 under WinXP? Do you know of any way to activate UDMA 33 instead of Multiword DMA Mode 2?
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Postby cfitz on Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:12 pm

Oops. I'm a little confused. I thought you had it working satisfactorily now. Not true?

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Postby Raz0rX on Sun Dec 15, 2002 12:01 am

Well, I have the DVDROM working @ full performance only when I put it @ primary slave because XP detects it as UDMA33.

But when I put the drive on sec.channel, then no matter the BIOS detects it as UDMA33 or 66, XP just doesn't enable UDMA/33.

Cfitz, I wanna try your method, how do I install the original MS IDE driver?
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Postby Raz0rX on Sun Dec 15, 2002 1:04 am

I just found tons of threads about DMA problems in XP on VIA chipset mobos (ViaArena's Forums). I will put my DVDROM back to sec.master and see if it is still getting MW DMA Mode 2.
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