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Media Compatibility With CD-RW Drives - Which Media Is Best?

General discussion about recordable CD, DVD and BD media and write quality testing.

Postby TheWizard on Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:22 pm

Danke, Herr Scour. :)
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Postby Scour on Fri Feb 14, 2003 5:24 pm

TheWizard wrote:Danke, Herr Scour. :)


No prob :)
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Postby lppnet on Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:45 am

cfitz wrote:
lppnet wrote:Here is the result from WSES:
http://www.geocities.com/lppnet/giga.htm

The result from CD Doctor!! :x :evil: :wink: :wink: :)

cfitz


Yup. You are right :oops: . Is my mistake :) .
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Postby cfitz on Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:52 am

lppnet wrote:Yup. You are right :oops: . Is my mistake :) .

You know I was just kidding with you. I don't really mind if you confuse CD Doctor and WSES. It causes no harm. 8)

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Postby Godji on Sat Feb 15, 2003 10:49 am

So.. I'm new here and I have a question, which probably does not have an answer but... which of the following three is best?

Samsung (black), manufactured by Prodisc
Sony, manufactured by Sony
Verbatim DataLife Plus, manufactured by Mitsubishi Chemicals

I've burnt a few of each, and all three work like breeze. Which one do you think is best?
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LiteOn LTR 48246S

Postby MediumRare on Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:24 pm

New results for LiteOn LTR 48246S, firmware SS0A:
Code: Select all
........................Acer/AC 80min 24x.......................48x

I bought a 10 pack of these mainly because of the packaging ("clip trays") and they really surprised me: next to the the TDK/Riteks, this media has the lowest error rate I've found (CD-Doctor: C1 max/mean = 10/0.3).

ATIP: 97m 22s 66f
Disc Manufacturer: Acer Media Technology, Inc.
Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)

Incidentally Nero (shift refresh) says these are Daxon. Everybody else says Acer Media.

G
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Postby cfitz on Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:27 pm

I'd probably say the Verbatim DataLife Plus, but if all give good results on your burner then it is really your choice. The only concern I have is with the Sony media. I got a few from a friend about 9 months ago, and they began to rot around the edges (the reflective layer began to corrode) after only a few weeks. I don't have the discs anymore, so I don't know whether or not the rot continued or stopped after a millimeter or two, but it was worrisome.

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Re: LiteOn LTR 48246S

Postby cfitz on Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:29 pm

MediumRare wrote:next to the the TDK/Riteks, this media has the lowest error rate I've found (CD-Doctor: C1 max/mean = 10/0.3).

Where did you get those, MediumRare? I'm looking for some good phthalocyanine media to use with my Memorex 48MAXX/LiteOn LTR-48246S.

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Re: LiteOn LTR 48246S

Postby MediumRare on Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:47 pm

cfitz wrote:Where did you get those, MediumRare? I'm looking for some good phthalocyanine media to use with my Memorex 48MAXX/LiteOn LTR-48246S.

I picked them up this afternoon at the local MediaMarkt (3.50 Euro /10). This is a chain in western Europe (I live in Frankfurt, Germany)- so that probably won't help you much...

G
Last edited by MediumRare on Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LiteOn LTR 48246S

Postby cfitz on Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:54 pm

MediumRare wrote:I picked them up this afternoon at the local MediaMarkt. This is a chain in western Europe (I live in Frankfurt, Germany)- so that probably won't help you much...

As I feared. You bought them outside of the U.S. where I can't get them. :( I hadn't seen any for sale at my local retailers. Thanks anyway. :)

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Re: LiteOn LTR 48246S

Postby MediumRare on Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:57 pm

cfitz wrote: Thanks anyway. :)

cfitz

Glad to help you any way I can- I've profitted so much from your expertise... :D
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Postby Godji on Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:59 am

A question to everyone: What's your opinion of Memorex, manufactured by MPO?
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LiteOn LTR 48246S

Postby MediumRare on Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:37 pm

Another rewritable - I do use these.
Code: Select all
LiteOn LTR 48246S
Firmware SS0A...........Intenso CD-RW/Nan Ya 80min 12x..........10X
Firmware SS0B...........Intenso CD-RW/Nan Ya 80min 12x..........12X

ATIP: 97m 15s 35f
Disc Manufacturer: NAN-YA Plastics Corp.
Reflective layer: Phase change
Media type: CD-ReWritable
Recording Speeds: min. 4X - max. 8X
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)

Reaching a conclusion about this media was difficult. I spent several hours varying 2 factors in 12 erase/write cycles:
- burning speed
- firmware

These are summarized in the table:
Code: Select all
Media           V     V     I(1)  I(2)  I(3)  I(4)  I(11) I(12)
Firmware        SS0A  SS0B  SS0A  SS0A  SS0A  SS0B  SS0A  SS0B
Speed           24x   24x   16x   12x   16x   16x   12x   12x
C1 Error (max)  148   64    353   565  2734   2073  307   70
C1 Error (ave)   16    6.7   38   174  1983   1325   22    1.2
C2 Error (max)    -    -      -     1   991    323   -     -
C2 Error (ave)    -    -      -     0    28      4   -     -

        V = Verbatim Ultraspeed 650 MB
        I(n) = Intenso 4-12x 700 MB, erase/write cycle n


At first I thought that they were a real alternative to the Verbatim Ultraspeed RWs- they hold 700MB, are ~25% cheaper and burn at 16x (CLV), which is only slightly slower than 24x CAV. The first burn @16x was OK, but with an error rate significantly greater than the Verbatims.

Then I did 2 full erase/burn cycles: 12x and 16x again. Both had C2 errors.

The drive had firmware SS0A as a relict from my experiment with MTKWinflash- I had forgotten to flash back- and I decided to go back up to SS0B. I did some more cycles, with several repeated configurations to eliminate possible hysteresis.

Conclusions:
- the media cannot be used at 16x
- 12x performance with SS0A is erratic.
- SS0B brings significant improvements over SS0A for RW media (for the Verbatims too). The CD-Doctor graphs @12x differ radically: with SS0B, they look more like a typical CD-R result. I'll try and activate some webspace so that I can post some pictures.

It would be useful if someone else could confirm the RW-improvement with SS0B

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Postby TheWizard on Sun Feb 16, 2003 10:45 pm

Godji wrote:A question to everyone: What's your opinion of Memorex, manufactured by MPO?


I don't know about Memorex specific discs made by MPO, but on average, MPO manufactured discs have not performed well on a variety of drives (LG, Ricoh, and Sony). They always burned on the tested drives, but they did not burn at their rated speed. These discs may work fine in your burner, but they also may not.
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Postby TheWizard on Sun Feb 16, 2003 10:49 pm

Very thorough analysis, MediumRare, thank you very much. :)

I wonder if NAN-YA Plastics Corp. is related to Nanya Technology Corp. at all. I like Nanya RAM, it's good stuff.
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Postby glock20rocks on Sun Feb 16, 2003 11:50 pm

Drive: TDK IndiDVD
Disc: PNY 40x rated (CMC)
Burn speed: 16x, error free.

This is interesting. This disk was from a 50-pack, and would not burn at 16x on my 48125W without 50%+ damage. I tried burning some on my friends 40x12x48 Lite On, same results. Lot's and lot's of damaged areas. The surface scan came out perfect on the TDK drive, on an old 6x Creative Labs DVD, on said friends 40x12x48x Lite-On, and on his 16x Lite-On DVD drive (the 163 model, I think).

So: these discs really aren't bad at all. It's just the drive thats writting them is what is determining the quality. The same discs burned in either my old 48125W or my friends 40x drive showed the same horrible 50-100% damaged areas on ALL of the above mentioned drives.

I just wish the TDK could write CD-R's at 24x at least. But, since I burn almost 100% data discs, I have no need for CD-RW anymore. Junked the Plextor 48 burner, and the crappy/dead Lite-On 48125W. I've got some pics of what a .454 does to 'em, I'll post 'em as soon as I get 'em devoloped and copied to the PC... :)
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Postby TheWizard on Mon Feb 17, 2003 3:33 am

Thanks, glock20rocks, and I'm not surprised about the performance of these discs in your Lite-On LTR-48125W. Lite-On drives are not friendly with most CMC media, check the list on page 1 of this thread and you'll see.

By the way, do you know the firmware version for the TDK IndiDVD?
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Postby LoneWolf on Mon Feb 17, 2003 9:49 am

My best results have always been with the blue surface Verbatim DataLife CD's. Almost impossible to make a bad CD unless your original media you're copying from has problems already. They're also some of the best if you have a Yamaha drive with DiscT@2, for viewing the text/graphics you create. Nothing else seems to resist sun, scratches, or long-term use as well either, I've been using these discs since `99, and aside from ones I've heavily abused (i.e., left under the car seat for a year out of the jewel case) they last and last.
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Postby glock20rocks on Mon Feb 17, 2003 12:15 pm

Sorry, forgot. The firmware version is V1.36, currently the only one (none listed on TDK's web site).
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Postby Scour on Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:05 pm

TheWizard wrote: and I'm not surprised about the performance of these discs in your Lite-On LTR-48125W. Lite-On drives are not friendly with most CMC media, check the list on page 1 of this thread and you'll see.



Not only with CMC, also with Sony, Digital Storage and more

http://www.brennmeister.com/forum/viewt ... forum=8&11

That is really bad writing quality :evil:
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Memorex 48x

Postby Killer on Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:51 am

Hi!

I had unfortunately made the mistake and bought a 10pack of these crap cd's...

ATIP: 97m 25s 07f
Disc Manufacturer: MPO
Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
CD Speed: Disk Info -> Dye Type 7: Short strategy (Phthalocyanine)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.69MB (79m 59s 00f / LBA: 359775)

Burns at 32x and are NOT error-free :evil:



With ARTEC 52x24x52x,will it be reviewed?

Specifications
Model CD-RW 52*24*52

Reading Speed 52x (CAV), 7800 KB/s (Max)
Recording Speed CD-R / 52X (CAV), CD-RW / 24x (CLV)

Supporting Formats
Reading Mode
CD-DA audio, CD-ROM, Multisession / Multi Volume - CD-ROM XA or CD-I, MultiMedia - CD-ROM / XA or CD-I (Compressed Audio, Video, graphics, Tracks 2-99)
Recording Mode
Track at once, Disc at once, Incremental packet writing and reading, Multisession Data, (Direct) overwrite on CD-ReWritable discs in all modes according Orange Book Part III Min, JustLink supported

Average Access Time 100ms (1/3 stroke avg.)
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Postby TheWizard on Wed Feb 19, 2003 3:46 pm

Hi Killer, did you try burning those discs at a slower speed and checking for errors? They may be error free at 24X, 16X, or 8X. Then again, maybe not. :P
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Postby lppnet on Thu Feb 20, 2003 3:08 pm

100% no problem. The test result from CD Doctor and CDSpeed is here:
http://www.geocities.com/lppnet/tinlex.htm

Consider the price of this CDR, the quality is no bad. Among the cheapest cdr here.

Drive : LTR-52246S
Firmware: 6S0C
Software : Nero Burning ROM 5.5.10.7
File Size : 703Mb
Burn Speed : 52x

CDR info from Nero CDSpeed:
Manufacturer : Postech
Code : 97m26s11f
Disc Type : CD-R
Usage : General
Recording Layer : Dye Type 1: Long Strategy (Cyanine, AZO)
Recording Speed : n/a
Capacity : 79:59.73
703 MB
Additional Capacity : n/a
Overburn Capacity : not tested
Last edited by lppnet on Sat Feb 22, 2003 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TheWizard on Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:35 pm

What are the results with Nero ScanDisc? If you recall, the guidelines follow Nero ScanDisc results, not CD Doctor.
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Postby Spazmogen on Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:21 pm

Optimum 48x rated @ 52x, 700mb ( I think they were a Staples deal in the USA in October & November). Cost was 94 cents for a 50 pack.

Lite On LTR-52246S: 6S0A firmware

From CD-R ID:

ATIP: 97m 26s 66f
Disc Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corp.
Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.82MB (79m 59s 71f / LBA: 359846)

From Smart Burn utility:
This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Phthalocyanine
ATIP Lead-in = 97m 26s 66f
Norminal Capacity = 702.82MB (79m 59s 71f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = CMC,Imation
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 52X

All results are @ 52x.


Image

Total time: 2 minutes 35 seconds. Not bad actually.

How about quality?

Image

Those drops in speed occurred when a program (e-mail probably) accessed the internet. I was watching it as it occurred.

CD Doctor:
Image

Overall?

Not bad. I'd use them again. I still have 49 left in the spindle anyways. Not quite as good as Fuji or Verbatim, but a definite improvement from CMC.
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