Home News Reviews Forums Shop


Nutbar Companies!!!!

DVD-R/W, DVD+R/RW, DVD-RAM

Nutbar Companies!!!!

Postby jberry on Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:30 am

Sorry for the rant....I saw the Lite-On announcement today...why in the world would any company make a burner WITHOUT bitsetting....if this turns out to be wrong then bomb this post Ian....but man, are these companies so stupid that they do not read these forums on how what features are good?
jberry
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:48 pm

Postby Ian on Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:37 am

Well, I know that with some of Lite-On's more recent drives you had to use their own util. It's possible the version of the util currently available just doesn't support the 1635 yet. I really dunno. Dolph has our test unit. Maybe he can shed some light on the situation.
"Blu-ray is just a bag of hurt." - Steve Jobs
User avatar
Ian
Grand Poobah
 
Posts: 14882
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 2:34 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Postby dodecahedron on Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:40 am

what announcement? where?
link?
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie
-- JRRT
M.C. Escher - Reptilien
User avatar
dodecahedron
DVD Polygon
 
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:04 am
Location: Israel

Postby Ian on Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:58 am

dodecahedron wrote:what announcement? where?
link?


News post for Extreme Mhz's review.
"Blu-ray is just a bag of hurt." - Steve Jobs
User avatar
Ian
Grand Poobah
 
Posts: 14882
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 2:34 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:23 pm

It'll be the first thing I check for when I have a spare moment :D

In todays day and age, it's not unusual to take bitsetting a bit for granted... especially for DVD+RDL media.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby hoxlund on Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:48 pm

even the new pioneer drive 110, doesn't support bitsetting

right?
Fractal Design Define R5 White Window Case
Corsair RM1000 Power Supply
MSI X99A XPower AC USB 3.1 Motherboard
Intel i7-5930K CPU @ 4.8GHz
Corsair H100i GTX 240mm CPU Cooler
Mushkin Blackline 4x8GB DDR4 2400 Memory
Asus 980Ti Strix OC
User avatar
hoxlund
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 12:55 am
Location: RAF Lakenheath / Suffolk United Kingdom

Postby jberry on Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:03 pm

well then...those who "overlook it" just do not derserve your business...I cannt believe in this day and age with reports everywhere from sites like these that bitsetting is a must that some manufacturers ignore it...just plain ignorant.
jberry
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:48 pm

Postby dodecahedron on Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:08 pm

off topic slightly, but my >5 year old Sony DVD Player does not recognize my Sony 4x DVD+RWs when bookset to DVD-ROM, does recognize them when left as DVD+RW. i know this to be true of another DVD player (a friend's).
odd.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie
-- JRRT
M.C. Escher - Reptilien
User avatar
dodecahedron
DVD Polygon
 
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:04 am
Location: Israel

Postby Scour on Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:25 pm

dodecahedron wrote:off topic slightly, but my >5 year old Sony DVD Player does not recognize my Sony 4x DVD+RWs when bookset to DVD-ROM, does recognize them when left as DVD+RW. i know this to be true of another DVD player (a friend's).
odd.


Had the same problem with a cheap player from Cybercom (not Cyberhome), it don´t recognize +RW with ROM-booktype, but player with RW-booktype
Benq DW 1640, LG GH-20N, Pioneer BDR-208
Crucial M4, Sandisk SSD, Plextor M5S, Sandisk Ultra Plus, OCZ Petrol 256GB

cu
Scour
Scour
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1909
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Germany

Postby jberry on Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:54 pm

point taken....so flexibility is required of course...this is just firmware coding...I just cannot figure out why some would not even consider offering such flexibility...wierd
jberry
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:48 pm

Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:10 pm

For those interested, the DVR-110D *CAN* do bitsetting on both DVD+RW and DVD+RDL. I succeeded in bitsetting for both media types using Nero CD/DVD Speed, which later recognised the discs as having the changed booktype.

DVD+Rs however still cannot be bitset by the drive.

I'll be able to turn my full attention to the LiteON 1635s soon :D
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby Scour on Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:47 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:
I'll be able to turn my full attention to the LiteON 1635s soon :D


:)

So a review of the 1635s follow soon?
Benq DW 1640, LG GH-20N, Pioneer BDR-208
Crucial M4, Sandisk SSD, Plextor M5S, Sandisk Ultra Plus, OCZ Petrol 256GB

cu
Scour
Scour
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1909
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Germany

Postby jsl on Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:01 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:For those interested, the DVR-110D *CAN* do bitsetting on both DVD+RW and DVD+RDL. I succeeded in bitsetting for both media types using Nero CD/DVD Speed, which later recognised the discs as having the changed booktype.

DVD+R DL is burned as DVD-ROM book type by default and there is no way to change it.
DVD+RW is burned as DVD+RW book type by default and there is no way to change it. However if you've burned the DVD+RW disc with DVD-ROM book type on a different drive it will be preserved unless you do a full format.

dolphinius_rex wrote:DVD+Rs however still cannot be bitset by the drive.

Not officially but you can use http://tdb.rpc1.org/#DVR110D
jsl
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:34 am

Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:44 am

jsl wrote:DVD+R DL is burned as DVD-ROM book type by default and there is no way to change it.


Well, DVD+RDL is bitsetting properly for me... at least according to Nero CD/DVD Speed :o

jsl wrote:DVD+RW is burned as DVD+RW book type by default and there is no way to change it. However if you've burned the DVD+RW disc with DVD-ROM book type on a different drive it will be preserved unless you do a full format.


Interesting, I'll have to try that!
Attachments
PioneerDVR-110D_DVD+RDL.png
PioneerDVR-110D_DVD+RDL.png (19.93 KiB) Viewed 2875 times
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby dodecahedron on Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:59 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:
jsl wrote:DVD+R DL is burned as DVD-ROM book type by default and there is no way to change it.

Well, DVD+RDL is bitsetting properly for me... at least according to Nero CD/DVD Speed :o

i think jsl is saying that it bitsets DVD+R DL to DVD-ROM booktype all the time and this cannot be disabled.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie
-- JRRT
M.C. Escher - Reptilien
User avatar
dodecahedron
DVD Polygon
 
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:04 am
Location: Israel

Postby Jim on Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:01 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:DVD+Rs however still cannot be bitset by the drive.


I believe TDB have dumped the Pioneer 110D sister drive (Buffalo) firmware and have created a flasher for the 110D. The Buffalo firmware allows bitsetting of DVD+R. Saw it on cdfreaks.

Jim
Jim
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2002 12:22 am
Location: USA

Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:57 pm

dodecahedron wrote:
dolphinius_rex wrote:
jsl wrote:DVD+R DL is burned as DVD-ROM book type by default and there is no way to change it.

Well, DVD+RDL is bitsetting properly for me... at least according to Nero CD/DVD Speed :o

i think jsl is saying that it bitsets DVD+R DL to DVD-ROM booktype all the time and this cannot be disabled.


Doh! Mis-read that :o

Thanks Dodeca :wink:
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby jberry on Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:00 pm

why would you not want dvd +rDL NOT to be DVD-ROM
jberry
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:48 pm

Postby dodecahedron on Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:20 pm

i agree that it doesn't make sense.
but not being able to bitset the booktype of DVD+R and DVD+RW ... [-X :(
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie
-- JRRT
M.C. Escher - Reptilien
User avatar
dodecahedron
DVD Polygon
 
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:04 am
Location: Israel

Postby dolphinius_rex on Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:49 pm

dodecahedron wrote:i agree that it doesn't make sense.
but not being able to bitset the booktype of DVD+R and DVD+RW ... [-X :(


Not that I'm buying into the propaganda put out by Pioneer or anything, but I don't see not being able to bitset the booktype on DVD+R as a big deal. The amount of players that can't play DVD+R isn't that large, and the ones that CAN play DVD+R only when bitset is VERY small.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby jberry on Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:43 am

actually there are 4 houses on my side of the street alone who have dvd players that are over 5 yrs old...they will not play +r. They actually return dvd burners to Futureshop, who of course had no idea what was going on....so I showed them NCIX and the 1640 and Qsuite....low and behold after booksetting to DVD-ROM all was ok. This issue I think is far more prevalent than people think....just look at the amount of returns FS and BB get of drives that are actually ok. Most people just do not upgrade their DVD players. I would say in 5 yrs after all the oldies go then yes all will be fine. But this is no excuse for manufacturers not to spend the extra 30 sec to program the firmware to do all this..just no excuse save for politics.
jberry
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:48 pm

Postby Justin42 on Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:15 am

I have to agree with jberry, I think the +R compatibility may be a bit more widespread than those of us kind of knee deep in the trenches may realise. We know about bitsetting, or how to find out what our players can play, and/or know to buy players that DO work with anything. but a lot of people who randomly buy DVD players off the shelves (or even do a lot of research but don't pay attention to DVD recordable playback) have issues...

I have quite a few players that don't like non-bitset DVD+R (yes, like a true geek I have multiple DVD players-- higher quality players, region free players, recorder/player ;), game systems). I'm trying to think if any of them have trouble even with bitset DVD+R, maybe. Only one or two of those refuse to play DVD-R. Now, for me, if I can't play a disc I try another unit. but what if your ONLY DVD player happens to be one of those?

I think in the last year or so these things are finally getting straightened out; but I think there are a large number of players in the 1-3 year old range that are really iffy about recordable media, and ESPECIALLY iffy about DVD+R (bitset or not, although I will agree bitsetting brings DVD+R roughly up to DVD-Rs compatibility).

For stuff I burn for myself, or my parents (where I know what their players can do) I use whatever is handy and most appropriate. For sending to people who I don't necessarily know about their setups, I usually use DVD-R, and haven't heard of any problems...
Justin42
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 10:30 pm

Postby dodecahedron on Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:33 am

not all players (esp. old ones) can have their firmware updated.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie
-- JRRT
M.C. Escher - Reptilien
User avatar
dodecahedron
DVD Polygon
 
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:04 am
Location: Israel

Postby Tornado on Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:09 pm

I was able to bitset both a DVD+R and DVD+RW to DVD-ROM successfully with the SHW-1635S (YSOG). I used Nero CD-DVD speed 4.08 to set the booktype. I think the issue is that the drive does not remember the settings if powered down and will revert to DVD+R (or RW) booktype when powered back up.
Tornado
Buffer Underrun
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:06 am

Postby jberry on Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:01 pm

yes...this is more of an issue than we on these boards realize, but as I said earlier in 5 yrs time those old standalones will likely be replaced, so who cares then?

But now I think this is an issue this board (with others) should address in the reviews.

I think there should be a separate page called Bitsetting. In it an explanation of what it is, what media it is for, and why it is NECESSARY at this point in time. Those drives who do not offer complete flexibility is setting +R to ROM and back should loose -1 right off the top. Those who offer it get +1 (can't get better than 10 though).

This may make nonsense drive releases less so.

what does anyone think of this?
jberry
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:48 pm

Next

Return to DVD Writers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

All Content is Copyright (c) 2001-2017 CDRLabs Inc.