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Official K-Probe Discussion (Tool for Scanning C1C2/PIPO)

General discussion about recordable CD, DVD and BD media and write quality testing.

Postby blakerwry on Tue May 13, 2003 4:07 am

i ahve a problem with the program. It works fine on my lite-on drive, but when used on my LG 4320B I get an error.

When trying to check C1/C2 errors at the beginning of the process the program tries to set the CD drive speed (says "ATAPI: Set CD Speed"). At this point the program fails with error "052000 Invalid Command Operation Code".

I assume this is because the LG drive does not support being able to be set at specific speeds. (This drive does not work with Nero drive speed either). Is it possible that the program (when set at speed: max) would simply start checking for c1/c2 errors without setting the read speed of the drive?
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Postby blakerwry on Tue May 13, 2003 4:08 am

or alternatively could handle the problem more gracefully and allow the checking to continue anyway.
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Postby Inertia on Tue May 13, 2003 4:32 am

Karr Wang, the developer of KProbe, works for LiteOn. KProbe is designed specifically for LiteOn drives.

My understanding is that C1 error reporting is not accessible by MMC commands, but specific proprietary knowledge is required to access this information from the CD-RW drive chipset.

Your LG 4320B undoubtedly uses a different chipset command code set than the LiteOn drives for which KProbe was designed.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue May 13, 2003 8:39 am

CD Media Info version 1.3 now available!
http://home.pchome.com.tw/cool/cdtools/

so far there have been no new features or fixes listed for it... and I don't see any major differences between the versions, which probably means that it has some of the manufacturer info changed
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

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Postby MediumRare on Tue May 13, 2003 5:11 pm

KCK wrote:Your experiences with x-AZO discs don't preclude proper dye identification (for whatever it's worth).

That's true- I think I said something to that effect, though:
This can be construed as an argument for or against characterizing the dye type.

KCK wrote:In contrast, now I must quit SmartBurn before calling MInfo; otherwise I get weird errors ("Drive F: not detected", etc.). Similarly, I can't call KProbe before quitting from SmartBurn or MInfo. I don't know whether this is due to my XP Pro SP1 setup, or my LTR-48125W burner being connected via FireWire.

I've found that K's Probe, MInfo, CD Doctor, CDRIdentifier all coexist without problems.
I can add 1 of (Nero CD Speed, SMART-BURN) but not both: I have to exit the other one, or end up with message you quoted.

MInfo version 1.3 identifies the older Verbatims OK now- they're Mitsubishi again.
I've found another exotic disk which doesn't seem to be OK. In this case, the write speed is different from SMART-BURN too:
Code: Select all
Fujitec 700 MiB Audio

LITE-ON LTR-48246S     
Drive Type   = CD-RW   
Disc  Type   = CDR (B-)             
Lead In      = 97:27:19
Lead Out     = 79:59:74
Nominal      = 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f/LBA:359849)
Manufacturer = Princo Corporation
Cur. Speed   = Wrt(40X),Rd(48X)

All other sources say Plasmon, SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 12X. I only have a single finalized disk, so I don't know what Nero says about the burning speed.

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Postby musicmusic on Sat May 17, 2003 10:47 am

new kprobe 1.1.11
Release Notes v1.1.11

1.Fix Bug : Read Access Violentation Error at some machines

http://home.pchome.com.tw/cool/cdtools/

cdmedia info was also uploaded again judging by the filedate on the server.
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Postby rdgrimes on Sat May 17, 2003 11:28 am

New version of MInfo is 1.4.
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Postby dodecahedron on Sat May 17, 2003 1:09 pm

rdgrimes wrote:New version of MInfo is 1.4.

minor bug (extremely minor):
the title-bar of the window still says MInfo v1.3. :o

the window is still too small (on my system at least), needs to be resized to see all the info.
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Postby KCK on Sat May 17, 2003 7:30 pm

dodecahedron:

Same here: MInfo v1.3 on the title bar (but both MInfo v1.4 and MInfo v1.3 inside MInfo.exe), and the window is still too small. Do you also have "Large fonts" or increased "DPI Setting" (see my former message)?

As for KProbe 1.1.11, when called for the first time, it had quite weird default Setup settings (all colors black, Error Value 0), but now the changed settings are remembered correctly.
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Postby cfitz on Sat May 17, 2003 11:38 pm

Version 1.1.12 now out. It corrects some driver related bugs in 1.1.11 that caused KProbe to freeze on some machines. Get it at the same location as always:

http://home.pchome.com.tw/cool/cdtools/

Thanks Karr.

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Postby dodecahedron on Sun May 18, 2003 12:36 am

KCK wrote:dodecahedron:

Same here: MInfo v1.3 on the title bar (but both MInfo v1.4 and MInfo v1.3 inside MInfo.exe), and the window is still too small. Do you also have "Large fonts" or increased "DPI Setting" (see my former message)?

KCK:
i work at 1600x1200 resolution.
XP Pro Display Properties | Appearances | Font size - "Normal"
Display Properties | Settings | Advanced | General | DPI - "Normal size (96DPI)"
MInfo comes up clipped, showing 7 items up to Manufacturer (but not Cur. Speed).
this appears to be the same as what you experienced, i don't understand why you said "unclipped"!
KCK wrote:on my 1600*1200 notebook display under XP Pro, in Display Properties | Appearances | Font size I keep "Normal", but in Settings | Advanced | General | DPI Setting I tried two options. For "Normal size (96DPI)", MInfo comes up unclipped (in contrast to what I mentioned before), showing 7 items up to Manufacturer (but not Cur. Speed)
i can't find "what you mentioned before" that you referenced.

why is the window border so thin ? it's difficult to place the pointer on it for dragging to enlagre it!
Last edited by dodecahedron on Sun May 18, 2003 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby KCK on Sun May 18, 2003 12:47 am

KProbe 1.1.12 works fine for me; in particular, it took over the default Setup settings from 1.1.11.

The problem with KProbe 1.1.11 was related to ASPI:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php ... post425413
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Postby KCK on Sun May 18, 2003 1:20 am

dodecahedron:

Your default settings for 1600x1200 resolution (Font size Normal, Normal size (96DPI)) agree with mine, and the MInfo display is the same; "unclipped" means that it is not missing right and bottom edges as for other font/size choices, i.e., for your choice, it's easy to scroll down to see Cur. Speed, whereas for the "larger" choices, one must first drag the left edge to resize the window.

Thus in your case the display works as designed, although a larger window would obviate the need for scrolling.

BTW, I'm curious why your resolution is so high. Are you using a huge monitor?

Edit: Your complaint about too thin window borders is not the first one. Apparently this is a defficiency of the graphics library used for KProbe and MInfo. I guess Karr has never tried to resize any window... :cry:
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Postby dodecahedron on Sun May 18, 2003 1:56 am

@KCK:
thanks for the clarification.

BTW: i use a 19" CRT monitor (Sony Multiscan G420 Trinitron).
i like using a high resolution.
true my font size in IE is "Large", but i have the choice of having smaller characters if i want them...and when i'll install Linux (back to my roots...) i'll be able to have many terminal windows open concurrently, just like i like it.
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Postby j_c_hallgren on Mon May 19, 2003 1:01 am

Anybody get any odd errors/aborts from Kprobe when attempting to run it WITHOUT CD-RW attached? It should at least run and say no drive found or similar...but I get various page faults, etc.

I was just trying to see what vers I had installed :(
Quite new to this CD-RW stuff!
With my Micro-Solutions BackPack 232010 (LTR-48246S) unit...
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Postby MediumRare on Mon May 19, 2003 3:49 pm

j_c_hallgren wrote:Anybody get any odd errors/aborts from Kprobe when attempting to run it WITHOUT CD-RW attached? It should at least run and say no drive found or similar...but I get various page faults, etc.

I was just trying to see what vers I had installed :(

This rings a bell. :o I prepared this info quite a while ago (note the version in the samples), but it didn't really fit: little practical relevance and priority zero- just curiousity as a driving force.

Because the latest version of KProbe usually shows up when I'm at work, I got impatient and tried something "a bit stupid"- I tried it out on my PC with a LiteOn CD-Rom drive (no burner or DVD). The result is a bit strange: The first time I try an executable, I get a normal reaction:

Image

but if I leave the program and start it again, I get an error message accessing address 50:

Image

and the main menu looks like this:

Image

and it stays like that- often even after turning the PC off over night. The game starts from the beginning when a new version comes.

Question for Karr Wang: is there a startup command sent to the drive that could explain this ?

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MInfo 1.4

Postby MediumRare on Mon May 19, 2003 4:06 pm

I just picked up the new version of MInfo and tried it on the Fujitec Audio CD I mentioned previously- no change: Princo. The LeadIn 97:27:19 is a permanent code assigned to Plasmon, though, according to the OSJ paper cfitz cited for a similar case.

The optics has changed a bit- the frame now looks like KProbe, and I like that (not as flashy). One thing I didn't notice previously is that Karr Wang implemented a consistent set of names in version 1.3, and the tool says MInfo everywhere. That answers my earlier question. :D

I also retried my old drive under NT4 and MInfo 1.4 now doesn't even recognize the drive- it only sees my 8x Teac CD-Rom!! KProbe, as before, reports the manufacturer for blank media.

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Postby KCK on Mon May 19, 2003 8:49 pm

MediumRare:

KProbe's startup problems seem to be quite complex.

I mentioned before that usually I can't get SmartBurn, MInfo and KProbe running at the same time. I might have added that in my experiments with this combination sometimes KProbe produced an access violation error similar to that in your second picture. What is more interesting however is that outcomes of such experiments look almost random in the sense of being possibly different when the programs are called again in a particular order. Of course, maybe there is no random component, but simply an additional "state" variable representing history (e.g., some program or hardware buffers are not initialized properly at each call, etc.).

Right now I couldn't reproduce KProbe's access violation error. However, when called after SmartBurn, KProbe came up with an empty list of drives just like in your third picture. On the other hand, MInfo 1.4 and KProbe 1.1.12 seem to coexist peacefully right now. 8)

As for your problem with the CD-ROM drive, I get a similar configuration by removing my external burner, in which case only my IDE DVD-ROM (Toshiba SD-C2502) is present. Well, KProbe behaves correctly (even "Disc Info" works, although with "Unknown Manufacturer" because the ATIP is not read), even when called repeateadly. Thus other factors must come into play in your case.
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Postby MediumRare on Tue May 20, 2003 8:16 am

KCK wrote:Thus other factors must come into play in your case.

My problem at work was that ASPI was not installed. :oops:
The newest version of KProbe behaved differently in that the drop-down box for drive choice was blank. This is a more graceful way to draw attention to this problem! :wink:

After calling ForceAspi, the CD-Rom (LiteOn LTN485S) was recognized properly. Other options showed "reasonable" values as you mentioned (they did so without ASPI too).

So let me pass on what I learned from this, so that it's not completely an exercise in futility.
j_c_hallgren wrote:Anybody get any odd errors/aborts from Kprobe when attempting to run it WITHOUT CD-RW attached?

Check if you have ASPI installed. The Nero InfoTool will show this (and other useful information).

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Postby j_c_hallgren on Tue May 20, 2003 9:34 am

I checked the ASPI via Nero Info...."System ASPI installed and working normally" is status....when I start Kprobe w/o CD-RW (I'm on laptop with external drive so most times have it disconnected), I get "Access violation at address BBF7B9A6 in module KERNEL32.DLL Write of address 000081DF" which then results in...."Page Fault in Kprobe at 0167:004EA3A9" and two other similar aborts before it terminates...

I am unable to get actual images of abort msgs posted so text form is best I can do...
Quite new to this CD-RW stuff!
With my Micro-Solutions BackPack 232010 (LTR-48246S) unit...
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Postby KCK on Tue May 20, 2003 6:59 pm

MediumRare:

Since you needed ASPI at work for KProbe to recognize your CD-ROM drive properly, I'm wondering which version of Windows you are running there. On my XP Pro SP1 box without any system ASPI, KProbe works fine with my DVD-ROM drive.

j_c_hallgren:

Could you tell us more about your configuration: OS, make and model of the laptop, whether it has an internal CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive, and how the external burner is normally connected (internal USB 1.1 or 2.0 port, internal IEEE 1394/FireWire port, PC Card for USB or FireWire)? Are you using other external devices connected via USB or FireWire?
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Postby MediumRare on Wed May 21, 2003 12:55 am

KCK wrote:MediumRare:

Since you needed ASPI at work for KProbe to recognize your CD-ROM drive properly, I'm wondering which version of Windows you are running there. On my XP Pro SP1 box without any system ASPI, KProbe works fine with my DVD-ROM drive.

Sorry, forgot to mention it. NT4 with SP6 (at home I ahve XP home, SP1). Newer machines run XP-Pro, but we don't upgrade existing systems. I'm due for a new one later this year and the new ones all come with a burner, normally Artec or (lately) LG. :wink:

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Postby j_c_hallgren on Wed May 21, 2003 2:48 am

To KCK:My config is Dell Latitude CPI A366XT using W98SE...CD-RW is Backpack unit that I connect as needed via a PC card (also made by MicroSolutions)...no other devices attached at this time...and I currently have floppy drive in module bay instead of CD-ROM drive...

Do NOT have full Nero installed...just stand-alone "Info", etc...My burner uses SpeedyCd (another special for this drive)...the ASPI modules I have are standard W98 ones...and worked to burn my first two CDs three weeks ago..


Just found ASPICHK.EXE...via ForceASPI that I had D/L some time ago but never understood...it reports ASPI is NOT properly installed....

LOG0144: Starting ADAPTEC - ASPICHK installer on Wed May 21 03:14:03 2003
ASPICHK0438: OS = Windows 95 (4.10.2222)
UPGRADE1004: c:\windows\system\wnaspi32.dll dated 04/24/1999 02:22:00, 36864 bytes.
UPGRADE1062: c:\windows\system\wnaspi32.dll version 1.0.0.1
UPGRADE1004: c:\windows\system\winaspi.dll dated 04/24/1999 02:22:00, 3536 bytes.
UPGRADE1062: c:\windows\system\winaspi.dll version 1.0.0.65
UPGRADE1004: c:\windows\system\iosubsys\apix.vxd dated 04/24/1999 02:22:00, 29497 bytes.
UPGRADE1062: c:\windows\system\iosubsys\apix.vxd version 4.0.0.952
UPGRADE0965: File c:\windows\system\aspienum.vxd does not exist
UPGRADE0369: No existing file to compare, upgrade recommended
ASPICHK0522: Inconsistent version numbers among components
ASPICHK0592: ASPI installation has problems
LOG0218: Closing installer log on Wed May 21 03:14:03 2003


After a reboot (caused by MInfo locking up my system after similar aborts), the Kprobe error changed to a ASPI msg followed by aborts...but Nero Info has NO problems so not sure what Kprobe wants!
Quite new to this CD-RW stuff!
With my Micro-Solutions BackPack 232010 (LTR-48246S) unit...
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Postby KCK on Wed May 21, 2003 7:15 pm

j_c_hallgren:

I have just tested KProbe and MInfo on my 98SE box: both work fine.

This is on my notebook Twinhead GX (PII 366MHz) with an internal DVD-ROM drive (Toshiba SD-C2102) and a fairly clean installation of Win98SE (IEEE 1394 storage supplement + all critical updates). I have never installed any system ASPI, just Nero Burning ROM 5.5.10.28 and InCD 5.52.40. My Lite-On LTR-48125W sits in an external IEEE 1394 (FireWire) enclosure with the Oxford bridge OXFW911 (ME-320F from www.welland.com.tw) connected via an EagleTec FireWire PC Card (with no extra drivers).

Both KProbe and MInfo start correctly even when the PC Card or just the external burner are disconnected. Unfortunately the internal DVD-ROM drive can't be removed for additional testing.

My original ASPI of 98SE is listed by Nero InfoTool | System ASPI as:

WNASPI32.DLL : 1, 0, 0, 0 36864 bytes April 23, 1999
APIX.VXD : 4.00.952 29497 bytes April 23, 1999
WINASPI.DLL : 1.00 3536 bytes April 23, 1999

Adaptec's ASPICHK 2.0 (extracted from ASPI_471a2.exe) only lists APIX.VXD v4.0(952) and WNASPI32.DLL v1.0(1) (ignoring WINASPI.DLL and not complaining about the missing ASPIENUM.VXD, since both aren't necessary), and says "ASPI is properly installed and fully operational". I guess you were using an older version of ASPICHK, which complained about ASPI installation problems, although your ASPI looks OK (if the time stamps differ due to our time zones only). Anyway, you may check it via Nero InfoTool or ASPICHK 2.0.

Thus I don't think your problems are due to ASPI. Could you put your CD-ROM drive in the module bay to bring your configuration closer to mine for testing?

On another note, maybe there are problems with the Backpack drivers. Do you keep the PC Card inserted even when the burner is disconnected? BTW, your Backpack PC Card's transfer speed of 2.5MB/s (max) is roughly just 16x; not nice for a 48x24x48 burner! Hence, unless MicroSolutions' documentation is wrong, I would consider getting a USB 2.0 PC Card! 8)
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Postby j_c_hallgren on Thu May 22, 2003 11:47 pm

On my laptop, I can swap out the CD-ROM for a floppy, which I had done since I use that more often.
Tried Kprobe tonite with CD-ROM in bay...it WORKS!!!

And I only use the custom BackPack PC Card when using the drive...which, even though it's only rated for 12-16x, is MUCH better than ZERO X! Which is what I had before I bought the unit! ANY speed burner is better than NO burner, right???

IF I start burning a lot of CD's, I might consider a USB 2.0 card...but as it took me 3 months to do 2 CD's, I don't see that in near future :wink:
Quite new to this CD-RW stuff!
With my Micro-Solutions BackPack 232010 (LTR-48246S) unit...
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