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the London terrorist thing

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the London terrorist thing

Postby MonteLDS on Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:00 pm

anyone care?
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Postby CowboySlim on Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:17 pm

Too early to tell. They may have already dispatched the B-2s but haven't told us yet.

OTH, if they haven't leveled all major population centers in the Mid East by weekend, I guess that they still don't care.
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Postby Ian on Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:10 pm

I know some supposed arab terrorist group has claimed responsibility, but I have a feeling its some radical hippie group, pissed about the G8 summit.

In either case, the response probably isn't what they wanted. All the European countries seem to be pulling together.
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Postby MonteLDS on Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:45 pm

whoever did it is mean
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Postby dodecahedron on Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:30 pm

i thought it was Al-Quaida, no? if so, Israel will probably be blamed.

i feel sorry for the Londoners. i hope my relatives are all OK. my dad couldn't get them on the phone so he sent an email. no reply yet.
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Postby ruderacer on Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:25 am

This is only the beginning! These terrorist will stop at nothing. We need to realize that the world will never be same. My prayers to all the families affected by these coward acts. These people need to be terminated!
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Postby aviationwiz on Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:58 am

Ian wrote:I know some supposed arab terrorist group has claimed responsibility, but I have a feeling its some radical hippie group, pissed about the G8 summit.


That was one of my first thoughts, an IRA related group was the first thing I thought of.

dodecahedron wrote:i thought it was Al-Quaida, no? if so, Israel will probably be blamed.


Wait, you mean Israel wasn't behind 9/11 and 3/11? I swear they were... :roll:
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Postby dodecahedron on Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:59 am

LOL yeah i've heard that Israel was behind 9/11 #-o
what's 3/11 ?
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Postby code65536 on Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:23 am

dodecahedron wrote:what's 3/11 ?

Madrid

(if this had been just a few days later, then it'd fall into the /11 bombing pattern--and a certain chain store would be suing for trademark infringement)
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Postby jase on Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:22 pm

aviationwiz wrote:
Ian wrote:I know some supposed arab terrorist group has claimed responsibility, but I have a feeling its some radical hippie group, pissed about the G8 summit.


That was one of my first thoughts, an IRA related group was the first thing I thought of.


The IRA always gave prior warning to TV stations etc. So I can't see it being them. In any case the IRA have realised that it's far more profitable to raid NI banks.....

As for the "anyone care?" remark, that's pretty much what I would have expected to hear.

I think London is handling this in the right way -- a big "f*** you" to the terrorists by getting as near to normality as possible as quickly as possible, and not letting it get them down.

Ultimately, the reason London was hit yesterday specifically, was that 1500 London police officers were in Scotland protecting 8 jerks at a golf club.
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Postby burninfool on Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:30 pm

jase wrote:Ultimately, the reason London was hit yesterday specifically, was that 1500 London police officers were in Scotland protecting 8 jerks at a golf club.


Those "jerks" are pledging $50 billion(28 billion pounds) to aid Africa and help build a Palestinian state.It's time to stop calling the good leaders of the world "jerks" or "terrorists". :-?

On Topic:I equate terrorists to child molesters:you can't rehabilitate these sickos you can only lock them up or execute them.
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Postby code65536 on Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:55 pm

jase wrote:Ultimately, the reason London was hit yesterday specifically, was that 1500 London police officers were in Scotland protecting 8 jerks at a golf club.

I doubt that would've prevented it.

Blaming world leaders for everything is much like Europeans unfairly placing blame for everything bad on the EU. It's an easy scapegoat.
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Postby jase on Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:10 pm

code65536 wrote:
jase wrote:Ultimately, the reason London was hit yesterday specifically, was that 1500 London police officers were in Scotland protecting 8 jerks at a golf club.

I doubt that would've prevented it.

Blaming world leaders for everything is much like Europeans unfairly placing blame for everything bad on the EU. It's an easy scapegoat.


This was a flippant remark which was not intended to be read in the way it seems to have been.

But there are going to be very serious questions asked of Blair in the coming weeks. Why, when there have been eight thwarted attempts to do something similar to what happened yesterday, and with the G8 summit just around the corner which Blair was warned would be a time of a heightened risk to the capital, does the British government not only take manpower away from the capital, but also actually reduce the risk assessment level?

As for the EU, you are right in what you say. The reason the EU is in the state it is in is precisely because the individual states won't pull together, they're all in it for themselves.

A case in point, directly related to G8: Bush has said on record that he is willing to end all farming subsidies if the EU bloc does the same -- this is one of the key exacerbating factors of the continuing problems Africa experiences, that of unfair trade with Western countries. Good point for Bush.

However, Jacques Chirac categorically refuses to even consider changes to the Common Agricultural Policy which will allow this to happen, selfishly putting the wishes of his own powerful farming lobby ahead of international concerns. And the three other European leaders at the G8 are too weak to force France's hand, preferring to engage in petty squabbles about which country pays what.

This means that any progress made at the G8 summit is severely diluted due to lack of political will on the part of at least four of the eight.
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:13 pm

burninfool wrote:
Those "jerks" are pledging $50 billion(28 billion pounds) to aid Africa and help build a Palestinian state.It's time to stop calling the good leaders of the world "jerks" or "terrorists".


Are you so sure the money is REALLY going to help anyone who is needy?
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Postby burninfool on Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:12 pm

If the money is used for economic development(ie small business startup,seeds for farmers,etc) then I think it's worth it.China is importing cheap merchandise to some African countries and it's actually helping the economy by sparking capitalism.I agree with the African man in the article that the nations have to help themselves:"God helps those who help themselves","give a man a fish and he eats for a day,teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime"...words of wisdom.
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Postby Alektron on Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:34 pm

Many of the African governments are so corrupt. They skim money and food from the donations. Other times, they horde the oil profits. I don't necessarily agree with Bush on his policies, but I agree with his principle that US's monetary aid should be tied to accountability. Anyway, the US should balance its budget before donating money. (This is supposed to be a necessity a person's finances!)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3537045.stm


Also, different than the monetary aid topic, but in the same more broad topic of G8 issues, I want to know why all the western governments are signing up for the Kyoto treaty when India and China don't have to. India and China are prospering and very quickly increasing manufacturing levels, and thus pollution as well. Enforcing the Kyoto treaty has costs. In addition to low wages in the "developing countries" versus the wages in the west, the Kyoto treaty further reduces US & European competitiveness. Furthermore, the pollution of India and China is not formally regulated to the same extent, so the total world output of pollution will not necessarily have an upper bound.
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Postby Ian on Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:22 pm

The Bush regime has not followed the Kyoto treaty either. :roll:

There are so many problems here in the US. I'd really like to see people fed and educated here, before we send our money to the other side of the world. With our economy in the toilet, we're not really in a position to do this anymore either.
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Postby jase on Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:06 pm

Interesting thoughts from Fox News re the bombings, and the Olympics:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international ... 52,00.html

Fox News host, John Gibson, said before the blasts that the International Olympic Committee "missed a golden opportunity" by not awarding the 2012 games to France. "If they had picked France instead of London to hold the Olympics, it would have been the one time we could look forward to where we didn't worry about terrorism. They'd blow up Paris, and who cares?" He added: "This is why I thought the Brits should let the French have the Olympics - let somebody else be worried about guys with backpack bombs for a while."


"They'd blow up Paris, and who cares?". Interesting way to speak of a US ally, don't you think?
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Postby dodecahedron on Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:28 pm

jase wrote:a US ally

interesting way to speak of France, don't you think ?
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Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:40 pm

dodecahedron wrote:
jase wrote:a US ally

interesting way to speak of France, don't you think ?


And now to go south of the border to pick me up some "Freedom Fries" :lol:
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Postby jase on Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:56 pm

dodecahedron wrote:
jase wrote:a US ally

interesting way to speak of France, don't you think ?


So an ally who disagrees with one policy, no matter how major, isn't an ally now, is that right?

Well, I guess that would be in agreement with Bush, referring back to his "with us or against us" speech a few years back.
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Postby code65536 on Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:22 pm

jase wrote:So an ally who disagrees with one policy, no matter how major, isn't an ally now, is that right?

But what's an "ally"?

France doesn't hate us. They aren't about to declare war on us any time soon. There is a substantial amount of trade between the USA and France, and generally, we're reasonably friendly with each other. So in that respect, they are indeed our ally, much like how China is our ally.

But in terms of foreign policy, France and the USA have not been on the same page for decades. Remember the French withdrawal of forces from NATO command? Remember how France decades ago tried to thwart the UK's entry into the Common Market because the UK was viewed to be too closely aligned with the USA?

In that respect, France is not our ally, and neither is China.

But France is France. A country that boasts of institutions like L'Academie Francaise is always a little on the quirky side. ;)

On an unrelated note, "ally" can also change with the situation and can sometimes make strange bedfellows. Both China and Russia, who are themselves battling Muslim dissent, have been surprisingly supportive of the USA (or at least, not as critical as they normally are--compare how the offical Chinese media agencies reported on Bosnia years ago with how they report on Afghanistan to see the difference).
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Postby jase on Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:08 pm

> France doesn't hate us.

It does appear though that Fox hates France.......

Anyway, I'm out of here. The only reason I got dragged in in the first place was the "anyone care?" original question, which upset me a bit.
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Postby code65536 on Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:15 pm

jase wrote:It does appear though that Fox hates France.......

LOL. And Fox is Fox :roll: ; one has to learn to ignore them. Have you seen Outfoxed? You should.
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Postby dodecahedron on Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:44 pm

jase wrote:Anyway, I'm out of here. The only reason I got dragged in in the first place was the "anyone care?" original question, which upset me a bit.


Jase, my comment was ironic. but see what code65536 said about France to see where that came from.
the same day i posted my comment, i heard on a radio newsprogram a newsreporter living in France, and he said that during private conversations with various French people (not just one) they were'nt upset at all about the London thing. moer or less "serves them right" re the whole Iraq war issue etc. (and on top of the Olypic thing just the day before). well, there's a lot of blood between France and GB.

(as an Israeli i have my own beef with France and the French, but lets not get into that...)

as for getting upset with the "anyone care?", i quite agree with you, it upset (and surprised!) me too.

@code65536: yeah i saw Outfoxed, a good documentary. i was quite surprised, i'd thought Americans were smarter.
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