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Re: CMC made in Mexico

Postby cfitz on Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:33 pm

MediumRare wrote:cfitz: the India 40x and EU 48x have ATIP = 97m 34s 23f like your Mexicos, but have differing nominal capacities:
40x: 79m 59s 74f
48x: 79m 59s 73f
Maybe this codes the rated speed or a different process?

Different process sounds reasonable, but I don't know with authority. My Mexican ones report 79m 59s 73f like your EU ones.

As for the CMCs masquerading as DataLifePlus, that's too bad. :( For what it is worth, though, it is believed that at least some Verbatim DataLifePlus media are made in CMC factories using Mitsubishi Chemical's process and materials. So it wouldn't be too surprising to see some inbreeding going on. Let's hope it doesn't spread, as we all know the unfortunate results of inbreeding...

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Re: CMC made in Mexico

Postby MediumRare on Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:14 pm

cfitz wrote:As for the CMCs masquerading as DataLifePlus, that's too bad. :(

Here the packaging of the "Made in Mexico" DataLife disks. I knew they weren't DataLifePlus. I didn't know they were CMC. I bought these out of curiousity to find out what they were. Still- the packaging is misleading: :evil:

Top of 10-pack (says DataLifePlus):
Image

Front of 10-pack (says DataLife):
Image

I have enough media for the next while and will wait till 50-spindles of good quality are affordable again- enough experiments for a while.

cfitz wrote:For what it is worth, though, it is believed that at least some Verbatim DataLifePlus media are made in CMC factories using Mitsubishi Chemical's process and materials. So it wouldn't be too surprising to see some inbreeding going on. Let's hope it doesn't spread, as we all know the unfortunate results of inbreeding...

I have nothing against cooperation as long as the quality is OK. This media is OK as long as you don't expect more than is offered.

As far as inbreeding is concerned- I have no personal experience. :wink: :lol:

G
Last edited by MediumRare on Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dodecahedron on Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:39 am

more strange stuff from Verbatim.

i was in Office Depot today and found a pack of 25 CDs in slim jewel cases. these are Verbatim DataLife, 32x, the front of the pack looks very much like this:

Image

note the green color of the CD on the pic - indicatory of DataLife. in the DataLifePlus packaging the CD is always blue
(this color scheme - DL = green, DLP = blue, seems to be consistent as far as i can see).
the UPC code is 023942433392 (this does not appear in the InstantInfo database).

and the strange this is that they are made in Japan!!!

AFAIK the only made in Japan media is Taiyo Yuden! but then i don't expect Taiyo Yuden to appear as DataLife Verbatims...
am i correct here? or is it known that there is media from other manufacturer/s than TY that are made in Japan?

(note: the made in Japan is printed on the carton box that holds the 25 jewel cases, not on the individual CDs. the whole thing is shrink wrapped so i can't check an individual CD to see what's prined on it.)

mmm...strange indeed.

i may end up buying them only to satisfy my curiosity.
however $19 for 25 CDs thay may end up being CMC makes me think a couple of times before i do...
Last edited by dodecahedron on Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cfitz on Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:10 am

dodecahedron wrote:the strange this is that they are made in Japan!!!

I don't think that is all that strange. Mitsubishi Chemicals is, after all, a Japanese company. They certainly made CD-R in Japan in the past, and it wouldn't surprise me if they still do. I'm pretty sure they still make DVD recordable media in Japan.

Japanese manufacturers that have at the very least made CD-R in Japan in the past, if not still, include Taiyo Yuden (of course), Mitsui Toatsu (Mitsui), TDK and Ricoh, among others.

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Postby dodecahedron on Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:35 am

still, these are DataLife, the lower quality Verbatims.
so i don't expect them to be Mitsubishi Chemicals, much less Taiyo Yuden , Mitsui Toatsu (Mitsui).
and not TDK or Ricoh either. why would Verbatim sell media made by TDK? do TDK still manufacture any media? in Japan too?
or Richo.
for the cheap stuff they use CMC, for the good stuff they use their own Mitsubishi Chemicals, right?
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Postby cfitz on Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:41 am

dodecahedron wrote:for the cheap stuff they use CMC, for the good stuff they use their own Mitsubishi Chemicals, right?

"They" being Verbatim? In America yes, as far as I know. But then I think this thread has indicated that anything is possible, and it can vary by region throughout the world.

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Postby MediumRare on Wed Mar 12, 2003 5:43 am

dodecahedron wrote:still, these are DataLife, the lower quality Verbatims.
so i don't expect them to be Mitsubishi Chemicals, much less Taiyo Yuden , Mitsui Toatsu (Mitsui).
and not TDK or Ricoh either. why would Verbatim sell media made by TDK? do TDK still manufacture any media? in Japan too?
or Richo.
for the cheap stuff they use CMC, for the good stuff they use their own Mitsubishi Chemicals, right?

The Verbatim/TYs I found (Pastel 32x) were DataLife, not DLP.
I bought a 10-pack of TDK/48x a couple of weeks ago that were made by TDK. I don't know if they're Japanese made- no info on the packaging.
We used Ricoh's at work until a couple of months ago when they weren't readily available anymore. We're now using Verbatim DLP (made in India).

$19 for a 20-pack of those DL's is kind of steep. Both flavours of DL that I bought (the Pastel/TYs and the Mexico CMCs) were 5 Euro/10.

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Postby dodecahedron on Wed Mar 12, 2003 6:50 am

well, that's media prices in Israel for you.
i think i may have made a mistake, it may have been a 25-pack.

now if there were TY then the price would be OK by me.
but if they're CMC then NO. can get Verbatim/MC for less.
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Verbatim- great customer relations

Postby MediumRare on Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:57 pm

I want to pass on some very positive information about Verbatim and theri customer relations department.

About 2 weeks ago, I sent an eMail to Verbatim (Germany) about the misleading packaging of the "Made in Mexico" DataLife media (DataLifePlus on top flap: see here). I got an answer on Monday.

Apparently the information caused quite a stir there- they assured me that it slipped by them and that appropriate measures have been taken. As a small "thank you", they sent a 64 MiByte USB flash stick :D (with cable and a mouse pad).

I think that this positive attitude and the constructive reaction to a problem pointed out should be made public. :D

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Postby cfitz on Wed Mar 26, 2003 5:08 pm

Wow, that is impressive. Glad to hear it. And I hope you enjoy your reward. :wink:

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Re: Verbatim- great customer relations

Postby Harrier on Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:40 pm

MediumRare wrote:I want to pass on some very positive information about Verbatim and theri customer relations department.

About 2 weeks ago, I sent an eMail to Verbatim (Germany) about the misleading packaging of the "Made in Mexico" DataLife media (DataLifePlus on top flap: see here). I got an answer on Monday.

Apparently the information caused quite a stir there- they assured me that it slipped by them and that appropriate measures have been taken. As a small "thank you", they sent a 64 MiByte USB flash stick :D (with cable and a mouse pad).

I think that this positive attitude and the constructive reaction to a problem pointed out should be made public. :D

G


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Postby Darth on Sun Mar 30, 2003 8:51 am

I read on this forums people looking at the discs to idneitfy taiyo yuden media (frostred middle, striahgt serial no)

I was wondering the same thing for Verbatim/Mitsubishi media.

Recently, some Verbatim Blue Diamond and Verbatim Vinyl discs I saw do not have the typical thin/large serial numbers in the middle. These discs have fat/small serial numbers. I read on taiwnanese forums the vinly discs are made by CMC???

The Verbatim Blue Diamond has the same ATIP as Mitsubishi Super Azo HG but the Mitsubishi has the normal thin/large serial numbers.

Both types of Verbatim media are metal zao by the way. but the Blue Diamond is light blue dye :-?
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c2 errors?

Postby Dartman on Sun Mar 30, 2003 3:05 pm

This may be a bit of topic to this thread but I noticed the same single bad sector with a red c2 error with my 48x12x48 with cd doctor and several test burns I did with the cd speed audio test cd function. It only seems to do that with the 48, my 52 doesn't get it at all and some of the disks that show it read at very low errors on the 52 but show much higher on the 48 and it has the 56 minute red c2 error?!
I had accidently put 2 cd's in the 48 and I thought it was damaged but maybe it's a flaw between the program and the 48 drive.
I was using some older 40x TY/Fuji media mostly but it seems to show up a bit even with the newer 48 stuff but much better c1 error rate....HMMM...
I was getting ready to just replace it but maybe it's just a funky reading.

If you think this should be moved or whatever have at it.
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Re: c2 errors?

Postby MediumRare on Sun Mar 30, 2003 4:05 pm

Dartman wrote:This may be a bit of topic to this thread but I noticed the same single bad sector with a red c2 error with my 48x12x48 with cd doctor and several test burns I did with the cd speed audio test cd function. It only seems to do that with the 48, my 52 doesn't get it at all and some of the disks that show it read at very low errors on the 52 but show much higher on the 48 and it has the 56 minute red c2 error?!

Are you referring to the DateLife 40x that I burned at 48X ? There was a single sample with C2 errors on that scan. The other disk from that batch which I tried at 48x (which I didn't post) also had a very high C1-rate but no C2 errors, so I don't think it's a property of the drive.
Dartman wrote:I had accidently put 2 cd's in the 48 and I thought it was damaged but maybe it's a flaw between the program and the 48 drive.
I was using some older 40x TY/Fuji media mostly but it seems to show up a bit even with the newer 48 stuff but much better c1 error rate....HMMM...
I was getting ready to just replace it but maybe it's just a funky reading.

If you think this should be moved or whatever have at it.

I recall seeing somewhere (may have been in another forum) that the older LiteOn 48x drives (not the 48246S) did not work as well with the error scans. Don't nail me down on details- this was over a month ago.

Don't forget that what you're getting with a scan is a combination of writing and reading properties- so it may very well be your 48x drive.

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Postby Dartman on Sun Mar 30, 2003 4:22 pm

Yes thats the one. It seems that it used to get better error rates but I mostly use the 52 for burns and testing now. I use the 48 to double check stuff and when people need multiple copies of stuff I do 2 for one burns with both drives.
My Sony 500a will not burn with other mutiple burners in line or I could do 3 at once.
Anyways the 52 reads some of the affected disks much better, no c2 errors and sometimes a much lower c1 then the 48 gets.
When I saw that graph the c2 is the exact same spot mine gets it so I hope it's just a program/drive flaw and no real errors of consequense.
some of them check out fine in the cd quality tests andthe scan disk tests, a couple didn't but those usualy tested higher c1 with the 52 and had errors also.
I hate to think I might be cranking out error ridden disks when I use the older drive.
I'll probably eventually get another 52 just becuase anyways and retire the 48.
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Postby cfitz on Thu Apr 17, 2003 10:49 pm

I took advantage of Office Depot's two 50-packs for $22 deal, and got the ones made in Taiwan this time:

Code: Select all
            ATIP Lead-in = 97m 34s 23f
       Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 73f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = Mistubishi,Colombo
  SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 48X


They test out much like Medium Rare's EU discs, with very good quality but not as good as that batch from Mexico I got. For ease of comparison to my earlier results, I will post a CD Doctor chart rather than a K's Probe chart:

Image

Also note that I have upgraded my firmware since the earlier test, but that doesn't appear to be responsible for the (minor) differences between the Mexican and Taiwanese media.

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Postby jedimc on Sun Apr 20, 2003 11:27 pm

i have used the verbatim taiwan cd-rs and they seem to be allright i havent seen any other verbatim disks that are made in other countrys
this is the packaging in australia
Image

and has anyone tried those new verbatim vinyl cd-rs as showed here
Image
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and Samsung CD-ROM SC-148T
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Postby cfitz on Sun Apr 20, 2003 11:31 pm

jedimc wrote:this is the packaging in australia

Same as in America. 8)

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Postby jedimc on Sun Apr 20, 2003 11:45 pm

have you tried the vinyl cd-rs i havent but iwould like too try them i wonder if they are higher quality than the original verbatim disks :)
I have a LG GCE-8520B 52/24/52
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Postby cfitz on Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:01 am

I haven't tried them, but would hope their quality is as good as regular Verbatim discs, which I have always found to be high quality. They do use the older AZO dye, rather than the newer SuperAZO dye, so you will only be able to burn them at slower speeds 16x and below. They claim that the original AZO dye is more compatible with audio-only CD players. I don't know if that's true or not.

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Postby jedimc on Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:58 am

I have a LG GCE-8520B 52/24/52
and Samsung CD-ROM SC-148T
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Postby MediumRare on Mon Apr 21, 2003 2:02 am

jedimc wrote:this is the packaging in australia

They're different in Europe:
Image
From what Harrier said in one post (yellow lettering), this must be the packaging in Isarael too.

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Postby Harrier on Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:53 am

Affirmative.
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Postby QQ on Mon Apr 28, 2003 2:08 pm

Uhm, I got a 50pcs spindle of Verbatim DataLifePlus Crystal+SuperAZO Double Protection 48x. Packaging says "Made in India". And I have to say that quality wasn't that good. All the CDs I burned so far (both with Teac and Liteon burners) have a BIG spike of C1 errors somewhere in the mid of CD - few have C2 errors aswell. I wonder if all those spindles are such, or I just had bad luck..
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