Home News Reviews Forums Shop


verbatim cdr/rw vary in quality

Burn baby burn!

verbatim cdr/rw vary in quality

Postby Guzo on Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:48 am

i believed that verbatim makes high quality CDs

now they have CMC disc

i talk about datalife series (up to 48) and CD-RW (8 cm)

btw mitsubishi chemical models don't have the same quality.


verbatim datalife plus
Made in india are bad
made in eu work fine,
burnt at 12x with teac 524e
don't play in some nitpicking audio device
haven't tested yet ones made in Mexico
Guzo
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 8:00 pm

Postby TheWizard on Fri Mar 07, 2003 5:59 am

Verbatim DataLifePlus/Mitsubishi Chemicals CD-RW Discs Made in Singapore work great. Just thought I'd add to the list of good Verbatim discs. :)
No, I like women.
TheWizard
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 2074
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 6:56 pm

Postby lppnet on Fri Mar 07, 2003 9:45 am

The Verbatim/Mitsubishi cdr/cdrw that made in Singapore is hard to find nowadays. Though Malaysia is next to Singapore, but almost all the Verbatim/Mitsubishi sold here are made in Taiwan. So I'm doubt Verbatim/Mitsubishi's plant in Singapore already closed.
lppnet
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 5:48 pm

Re: verbatim cdr/rw vary in quality

Postby dodecahedron on Fri Mar 07, 2003 10:34 am

Guzo wrote:btw mitsubishi chemical models don't have the same quality.

verbatim datalife plus
Made in india are bad
made in eu work fine,

can you elaborate why you say that made in India DataLifePlus are bad?

i bought a short while ago 2 50-spindles of DataLifePlus 40x, they're made in India. this is the first made in India DataLifePlus i've seen, before they were always Ireland/Taiwan/EU (=???)

anyone has experience with made in India Verbatim DataLifePlus?
are they truely bad?
(maybe i can return some of them...)
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie
-- JRRT
M.C. Escher - Reptilien
User avatar
dodecahedron
DVD Polygon
 
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:04 am
Location: Israel

Re: verbatim cdr/rw vary in quality

Postby MediumRare on Fri Mar 07, 2003 10:50 am

dodecahedron wrote:anyone has experience with made in India Verbatim DataLifePlus?
are they truely bad?
(maybe i can return some of them...)

All the 40x DLP I've used were made in India (looked after someone posted problems about 3 weeks ago). I had one so-so disk so far (useable: high C1-error count but no C2s), have burned ca. 40. I have nothing to complain about. Mind you, I keep the speed to 16x on audio CDs, but didn't have any problems with others either.

(That was post no. 50 8) )
G
User avatar
MediumRare
CD-RW Translator
 
Posts: 1768
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 3:08 pm
Location: ffm

Postby cfitz on Fri Mar 07, 2003 11:21 am

My experience with the ones made in Mexico is good. In my Memorex 48MAXX/LiteOn LTR-48246S, I get burns comparable to TY media:

Image

I don't have experience with any made in Singapore or India.

cfitz
cfitz
CD-RW Curmudgeon
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:44 am

Postby lppnet on Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:33 pm

The Mitsubishi that made in Taiwan is not too bad compare to the made in Singapore one. It is true at least for me. Mitsubishi's cdr is the best for Yamaha's F1 cdrw drive.

Made in Taiwan
Image

dodecahedron - I used the Mitsubishi HGX40 (Made in India) cdr once. It got a higher c1 average compare to the Taiwan and Singapore one. Generally it is fine.

cfitz - Oh! Your Memorex 48MAXX/LiteOn LTR-48246S really superb. Able to get c1 average that less than 0.1 for Verbatim? I still remember that you also able to get c1 average that less than 0.1 for TY. It is consistent?
Last edited by lppnet on Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
lppnet
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 5:48 pm

Postby MediumRare on Fri Mar 07, 2003 5:03 pm

Here is a scan of "Made in India" Verbatim DataLifePlus (Super Azo), 700 MiB 40-rated burned at 40x, scanned in LiteOn LTR 48246S with CD Doctor at "Maximum Speed" (this is ca. 32x for video CDs).

Image

They're not as good as the "Made in Mexico" media that cfitz posted (I don't have anything that good) or even the "Sonic AZOs" that Ippnet has, but still quite good: the semi-logarithmic scale the Doctor uses tends to dramatize counts above 1 or 2.
Verbatim is about the only brand here that states a country of origin. I tried to track down where the other Verbatim DataLifePlus media I've used was made:
- the Metal Azo's (8x, 16x rated, mostly burned in my old recorder) were mostly Taiwan, some Singapore (as far as I can tell).
- a spindle of 24-rated was "Goods of EU"
- all the 40-rated I'm using now are "Made in India".

I found this in a local store (all 80 min/700 MiBytes):
- 24x made in Ireland
- 32x, 40x made in Mexico
- 40x, 48x made in India (including all 50 pc. spindles)
- 48x European origin

And then I saw some 40x Verbatim DataLife media (not Plus) made in Mexico (10-packs, ca. 15% less than DLP). I think it's safe to assume that these are not made by CMC. Does anyone know who makes these? My primary source of information as to manufacturer is no help here.

G[/b]
User avatar
MediumRare
CD-RW Translator
 
Posts: 1768
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 3:08 pm
Location: ffm

Postby cfitz on Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:22 pm

lppnet wrote: Oh! Your Memorex 48MAXX/LiteOn LTR-48246S really superb. Able to get c1 average that less than 0.1 for Verbatim? I still remember that you also able to get c1 average that less than 0.1 for TY. It is consistent?

That's one reason I haven't felt the need to flash the firmware to newer versions. And yes, it is consistent.

cfitz
cfitz
CD-RW Curmudgeon
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:44 am

Postby dodecahedron on Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:31 am

MediumRare wrote:Here is a scan of "Made in India" Verbatim DataLifePlus (Super Azo), 700 MiB 40-rated burned at 40x, scanned in LiteOn LTR 48246S with CD Doctor at "Maximum Speed" (this is ca. 32x for video CDs)...

is this the one so-so disk you mentioned, or is this representative of the made in India DLPs you've got?

MediumRare wrote:My primary source of information as to manufacturer ...

WOW!!! thanks for the excellent link!!! :D :P :P
i'll incorporate it into a FAQ about media manufacturer.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie
-- JRRT
M.C. Escher - Reptilien
User avatar
dodecahedron
DVD Polygon
 
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:04 am
Location: Israel

Postby MediumRare on Sat Mar 08, 2003 2:25 pm

dodecahedron wrote:is this the one so-so disk you mentioned, or is this representative of the made in India DLPs you've got?

No- this typical for the India DLPs. The questionable disk had an increasing C1-rate towards the end, but was still 100% in CDSpeed scan.

After seeing cfitz "Made in Mexico" results, I bought and tried some more Verbatims. First the summary for TheWizard (all error free):
Code: Select all
LiteOn LTR 48246S
Firmware SS0B...........Verbatim Super Azo/MC 80min 48X.........48X
........................Verbatim DL Pastel/TY 80min 32X.........40X

And now back to the Verbatim discussion. The 48x are "Goods of EU Origin", error rate is intermediate to my "Made in India" and cfitz's Mexicos both in optical impression and numbers (C1 max/mean: 10/0.5), so I won't bother with a picture.

The "Pastels" are the first TY I've encountered (they're mentioned in InstantInfo, but I hadn't seen them anywhere prior to today) and are really good at 40x (Smartburn limit) with C1 max/mean: 5/0.2. Of all the disks I've tried, only the TDK/Riteks 40x @48 were better (5/0.1)- they are very similar to cfitz' Mexicos. I don't really care for pastel-coloured disks, though. :-?

Conclusions ? The newer media (48x) is marginally better, but I'm not going to worry about "Made in xyz"- the media is all "good enough" by a wide margin.

dodecahedron wrote:WOW!!! thanks for the excellent link!!! :D :P :P
i'll incorporate it into a FAQ about media manufacturer.

I don't know if the scope of information goes much outside of Germany. It may useful to you and other Europeans though, if you can find your brand. From another thread, I know that it's certain that Fuji (for example) has other media in North America.

G
User avatar
MediumRare
CD-RW Translator
 
Posts: 1768
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 3:08 pm
Location: ffm

Postby dodecahedron on Sat Mar 08, 2003 3:50 pm

MediumRare wrote:The "Pastels" are the first TY I've encountered (they're mentioned in InstantInfo, but I hadn't seen them anywhere prior to today) and are really good at 40x (Smartburn limit) with C1 max/mean: 5/0.2. Of all the disks I've tried, only the TDK/Riteks 40x @48 were better (5/0.1)- they are very similar to cfitz' Mexicos. I don't really care for pastel-coloured disks, though. :-?

yeah, i saw those Pastel Verbatims by Taiyo Yuden too.
this was quite a shock to me - to see Verbatim produced by Taiyo Yuden! :o

MediumRare wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:WOW!!! thanks for the excellent link!!! :D :P :P
i'll incorporate it into a FAQ about media manufacturer.

I don't know if the scope of information goes much outside of Germany. It may useful to you and other Europeans though, if you can find your brand. From another thread, I know that it's certain that Fuji (for example) has other media in North America.

yeah, it is useful to me...saw there quite a few brands that are sold here. thanks again.

as for the Verbatim quality discussion - well, i'm stuck with 100 made in India 40x DLPs...too bad, as the newer 48x i see on the shelves are made in EU, i think...
LOL maybe now with the war scare going on i'll back up all my system every day and so go through those 100 CDs quickly....
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie
-- JRRT
M.C. Escher - Reptilien
User avatar
dodecahedron
DVD Polygon
 
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:04 am
Location: Israel

Postby MediumRare on Sat Mar 08, 2003 6:11 pm

dodecahedron wrote:well, i'm stuck with 100 made in India 40x DLPs...too bad, as the newer 48x i see on the shelves are made in EU, i think...

The 48x singles and 10-packs here are EU, the spindles I've seen (25x) are India. I wouldn't worry much about it- 40x is not much slower than 48x and a lot of pressed CDs aren't better than the 40x-Indias.
dodecahedron wrote:LOL maybe now with the war scare going on i'll back up all my system every day and so go through those 100 CDs quickly....

I really hope that that turns out to be an unnecessary precaution - you're a lot closer to the heat than anyone else here !!!!! :roll:

G
User avatar
MediumRare
CD-RW Translator
 
Posts: 1768
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 3:08 pm
Location: ffm

Postby dodecahedron on Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:28 pm

MediumRare wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:LOL maybe now with the war scare going on i'll back up all my system every day and so go through those 100 CDs quickly....

I really hope that that turns out to be an unnecessary precaution - you're a lot closer to the heat than anyone else here !!!!! :roll:

LOL maybe one of the forum members is from Iraq?
sadly this is not likely - most of the citizens of that country probably don't have the political freedom or the socioeconomical opportunity to use the internet freely.
(i hope my prejudices are'nt showing here...possibly the Arab nations/societies aren't as backwards as i believe...i admit it's difficult for me to bu truely objective)
</rant>

MediumRare wrote:I wouldn't worry much about it- 40x is not much slower than 48x and a lot of pressed CDs aren't better than the 40x-Indias.

hadn't even considered such a comparison!

thanks again for all the detailed information.
if anyone else has any more interesting info on various flavors of Verbatim DataLifePlus, please post it here!
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie
-- JRRT
M.C. Escher - Reptilien
User avatar
dodecahedron
DVD Polygon
 
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:04 am
Location: Israel

Postby Spazmogen on Sun Mar 09, 2003 4:26 am

LTR-52246S 6S0C firmware
24x Verbatim DataLifePlus CD-RW
Image

That was burned @ 24x

Verbatim 48x CD-R (Made in Mexico):
Image

That was burned @ 48x.
e6400 Core 2 Duo @ 2.13ghz
GeForce 7600GT 256mb PCI-e
2gb DDR2 667mhz Patriot ram 1.8v in d/c
Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 F10 BIOS
WD Caviar SE16 250GB SATA300 7200RPM 16MB Buffer
Samsung SATA2 80gb 7200rpm
Samsung SH-S182D 18x DVD burner
User avatar
Spazmogen
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1472
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Woodstock, Ontario

Postby Guzo on Sun Mar 09, 2003 4:51 am

i wanted to say that
the first verbatim made in india, had 15-20% slower transfer with the same drive i usually test (lite-on dvd ltd-163)
(datalife made by moser baer india)

2nd one is dlp 48× burnt audio at 12× would not play at all

other dlp made in europe work fine with a nitpicking audio samsung hi-fi stereo

i don't care about c1/c2 errors, btw i cannot test them

i want cds to work fine
Guzo
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 8:00 pm

Postby dodecahedron on Sun Mar 09, 2003 1:10 pm

Guzo wrote:i wanted to say that
sorry, didn't follow that.

Guzo wrote:the first verbatim made in india, had 15-20% slower transfer with the same drive i usually test (lite-on dvd ltd-163)
(datalife made by moser baer india)

i don't understand. are these DataLife or DataLifePlus?
what do you mean by DataLife made by moser baer india?
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie
-- JRRT
M.C. Escher - Reptilien
User avatar
dodecahedron
DVD Polygon
 
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:04 am
Location: Israel

Postby cfitz on Sun Mar 09, 2003 1:25 pm

As far as I know, Verbatim doesn't even sell something called "DataLife". They sell "DataLifePlus" and "ValuLife", but no "DataLife" without the "Plus". At least that is the way it is in America. So it may be that some people are confusing the "ValuLife" (CMC :( ) discs and calling them "DataLife". That could explain some of the results being reported here.

cfitz
cfitz
CD-RW Curmudgeon
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:44 am

Postby dodecahedron on Sun Mar 09, 2003 1:46 pm

no, it appears as thought there are DataLife Verbatims (although i have'nt seen any in stores).

look here:
http://www.instantinfo.de/index_cdrohlinge_e.php

one example:
http://www.instantinfo.de/detailcdr_e.php?ID=1635
Image
these are actually made by Taiyo Yuden!!! :o

another:
http://www.instantinfo.de/detailcdr_e.php?ID=1696
Image
these are made by CMC

another one:
http://www.instantinfo.de/detailcdr_e.php?ID=710
Image


there are a few more.

here's an interesting surprise:
http://www.instantinfo.de/detailcdr_e.php?ID=817
Image
Verbatim UltraLifePlus !!!
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie
-- JRRT
M.C. Escher - Reptilien
User avatar
dodecahedron
DVD Polygon
 
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:04 am
Location: Israel

Postby cfitz on Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:14 pm

Those Europeans just have to be contrary for the sake of being contrary. :D :wink:

Well, I guess Verbatim does sell different variants outside of America, so that negates my theory. Thanks for the information.

cfitz
cfitz
CD-RW Curmudgeon
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:44 am

Postby MediumRare on Sun Mar 09, 2003 3:03 pm

dodecahedron wrote:no, it appears as thought there are DataLife Verbatims (although i have'nt seen any in stores).

I do see them in stores- in fact my mention of DataLife "Made in Mexico" launched the whole InstantInfo discussion. The situation on these is "complicated" though- they come in boxes of 10 with "DataLife" on the front and "DataLifePlus" on top. I may have to buy one just to see what's inside. :-?

The CMC 16X aren't available anymore. I tried one (see here). I also have the Pastel DataLife /TYs (32x) and there are spindles of DataLife 40x "Made in EU" available- I don't know what's in them.

In fact, I haven't seen any ValueLife here.

G
User avatar
MediumRare
CD-RW Translator
 
Posts: 1768
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 3:08 pm
Location: ffm

Postby dodecahedron on Sun Mar 09, 2003 3:44 pm

MediumRare wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:no, it appears as thought there are DataLife Verbatims (although i have'nt seen any in stores).

I do see them in stores- in fact my mention of DataLife "Made in Mexico" launched the whole InstantInfo discussion. The situation on these is "complicated" though- they come in boxes of 10 with "DataLife" on the front and "DataLifePlus" on top. I may have to buy one just to see what's inside. :-?

DataLifePlus on the box, DataLife on the individual CDs?
strange.
are these made by Mitubishi Chemicals or by CMC then?

MediumRare wrote:The CMC 16X aren't available anymore. I tried one (see here). I also have the Pastel DataLife /TYs (32x) and there are spindles of DataLife 40x "Made in EU" available- I don't know what's in them.

In fact, I haven't seen any ValueLife here.

G
mmm...i have seen and used ValueLife CMCs!
every place it's totally different!
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie
-- JRRT
M.C. Escher - Reptilien
User avatar
dodecahedron
DVD Polygon
 
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:04 am
Location: Israel

Postby cfitz on Sun Mar 09, 2003 4:20 pm

Maybe it would help to post the dye type and ATIP information in addition to the country of origin, since there seem to be so many combinations. My test results were for Mexican DataLifePlus discs with SuperAZO dye, ATIP = 97m 34s 23f (Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation).

cfitz
cfitz
CD-RW Curmudgeon
 
Posts: 4572
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:44 am

Postby MediumRare on Sun Mar 09, 2003 6:07 pm

cfitz wrote:Maybe it would help to post the dye type and ATIP information in addition to the country of origin, since there seem to be so many combinations. My test results were for Mexican DataLifePlus discs with SuperAZO dye, ATIP = 97m 34s 23f (Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation).

cfitz

Both the 40x "Made in India" and 48x "EU origin" have that same ATIP- so it doesn't help that much.
dodecahedron wrote:DataLifePlus on the box, DataLife on the individual CDs?
strange. are these made by Mitubishi Chemicals or by CMC then?

No- DataLife on the front of the box and "DataLifePlus" on the top flap. :o I didn't open the box of 10, so I can't tell what's inside (I'll pick up a pack tomorrow evening to clear things up).
dodecahedron wrote:Gmmm...i have seen and used ValueLife CMCs!
every place it's totally different!

You're right on that one!

G
User avatar
MediumRare
CD-RW Translator
 
Posts: 1768
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 3:08 pm
Location: ffm

CMC made in Mexico

Postby MediumRare on Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:58 pm

MediumRare wrote:And then I saw some 40x Verbatim DataLife media (not Plus) made in Mexico (10-packs, ca. 15% less than DLP). I think it's safe to assume that these are not made by CMC.

I was wrong. :oops: They are CMC. Made in Mexico. :evil: :evil: What is CMC doing in Mexico? Or did just send some stampers there? They have a different nominal capacity than the abominable Philips 16x that turned me off CMC:
Code: Select all
     Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Phthalocyanine
            ATIP Lead-in = 97m 26s 66f
       Norminal Capacity = 702.82MB (79m 59s 71f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = CMC,Imation         
  SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 48X

The quality is somewhat better also. A first burn @48x slowed to 24x part way through. CD-Speed showed a single bad sector, but CD Doctor was unable to scan this disk at max. speed. A scan @8x showed not so good results:

Image

A second test @40x actually took less time than @48x and has pretty fair quality: C1 max/ave: 12/1.1.

Image

So I tried a second set of burns: these results are reproducible.

Conclusion: They're OK @40x, which is what they're rated at, but not more. The packaging is misleading because of the "DataLifePlus" on the top flap :evil: (scan of the packaging tomorrow). I will send a note to Mitsubishi Europe about this. I won't buy them again.

cfitz: the India 40x and EU 48x have ATIP = 97m 34s 23f like your Mexicos, but have differing nominal capacities:
40x: 79m 59s 74f
48x: 79m 59s 73f
Maybe this codes the rated speed or a different process?

G
User avatar
MediumRare
CD-RW Translator
 
Posts: 1768
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 3:08 pm
Location: ffm

Next

Return to CD-R/CD-RW Drives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

All Content is Copyright (c) 2001-2017 CDRLabs Inc.