Home News Reviews Forums Shop


Fuji DVD-R/DVD+R (Made In Japan)

DVD-R/W, DVD+R/RW, DVD-RAM

Fuji DVD-R/DVD+R (Made In Japan)

Postby gm2015 on Wed May 25, 2005 1:02 pm

My local Best Buy no longer sells 10 packs of Fuji DVD-R's that are made in Japan. All the 10 packs that they sell are now from Taiwan. The DVD+Rs that they sell are all from Japan, and I'm thinking of getting those instead.

I recently received one Fuji DVD+R that was made in Japan in trade and the results (using Nero CD/DVD Speed) were awful, which surprised me. It was, by far, ther worst disc that I have, but it's only one disc, and it wasn't burned on my system, which is an NEC 1300A.

Can anyone tell me if the Fuji DVD+R's that come from Japan are as good as the DVD-Rs (for both video and data)?
gm2015
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 11:49 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed May 25, 2005 1:43 pm

Fuji's Taiyo Yuden media is horrible... it's the single worst Taiyo Yuden disc available anywhere. I have no idea how the discs got so bad, or why Fuji does nothing about it, but there are many MANY complaints about it here in Canada as well.

The odd person still gets decent results however, so some drives, or perhaps some batches will have different results... but the norm right now appears to be poor quality results :cry:
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby gm2015 on Wed May 25, 2005 11:23 pm

I have only burned three Fuji DVD-Rs that were made in Japan, and have gotten mixed results. Using CD/DVD Speed to check for P1 failures, I got very good results with one disc (grade of 90), fair results with another (grade of 45) and one disc with a zero grade.

Even on the two where I didn't get great results, the lower score was because of one single P1 failure spike, and the rest of the disc looks good.

Being that I couldn't get the Japanese Fuji DVD-Rs, I bought a 15 pack of the Maxell 8X DVD-Rs (made in Japan) in Staples. I've burned about ten of them, and got DVD Speed scores ranging from 0 (that happened once) to 57. As with the Fuji's, I usually get one single spike of P1 failures that drives the grade down. The rest of the disc looks good, but the Maxells do result in higher overall P1 Failures on the disc.
gm2015
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 11:49 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Postby dolphinius_rex on Wed May 25, 2005 11:57 pm

maybe it's time for a new burner? :o
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby gm2015 on Thu May 26, 2005 1:06 pm

It IS a new burner. I have had it for about a year, but I just started using it for DVDs. In addition to the NEC burner, I also have a JMLS DVD-ROM, and that is the drive that I primarily use to check CDs and DVDs for errors with CD/DVD Speed. That’s because when it comes to CDRs, it can read both C1 and C2 errors (the NEC only reads C2), and when it comes to DVDs, the NEC can’t read P1 errors or Failures.

The problem with the lower grades may have more to do with the way the JMLS reads the discs than the way the NEC burns them. When it comes to reading CDRs, the JMLS has a tendency to find single spikes of C2 errors at or near the same spot- the 32:00 mark.

This happens regardless of the brand and regardless of the burner used. I do audio CD trading, and I get these spikes at the 32:00 mark with discs I burn, and with discs that I get from a variety of sources. I even checked some pre-recorded discs just to see what I might find, and on the one occasion when I found C2 errors, they were at the 32:00 mark.

If that happens, I then check them with the NEC, and then I usually find no errors.

If I get spikes at that spot with the JMLS, I disregard them.

The same thing might be happening with the DVDs. I get a single spike of P1 Failures, and with the Maxells, they seem to come near the 1.4 GB mark.

I haven’t burned many DVDs, but I have burned about 150 CDRs, and with all the C2 spikes and P1 failure spikes that I have found, I have had a problem with only one disc (that was a TDK made by CMC, which I no longer use).
gm2015
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 11:49 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Postby Coruscant on Thu May 26, 2005 4:57 pm

The Fujifilm 8X DVD-Rs I got from Best Buy have been impeccable. I've burned over 150 so far and tested quite a few. On my BenQ DW-1610 B8T9, these TYG02s have maximum PI Errors below 12 and maximum PI Failures below 6 with a quality rating of 97-99% on Nero CD-DVD Speed v3.80. Strangely, recording quality is marginally better at 12X than at the rated speed.
Coruscant
Buffer Underrun
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:19 pm

Postby Scour on Thu May 26, 2005 5:15 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:Fuji's Taiyo Yuden media is horrible... it's the single worst Taiyo Yuden disc available anywhere. I have no idea how the discs got so bad, or why Fuji does nothing about it, but there are many MANY complaints about it here in Canada as well.



Really? The Fuji DVD+R 8x with T02-Code is the only labeled TY with a good price here in Germany. The Plextor-media is extremly overpriced, the Verbatim Pastel 8x hard to get.

Which labeled TY-media can you recommend?
Benq DW 1640, LG GH-20N, Pioneer BDR-208
Crucial M4, Sandisk SSD, Plextor M5S, Sandisk Ultra Plus, OCZ Petrol 256GB

cu
Scour
Scour
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1909
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Germany

Postby gm2015 on Thu May 26, 2005 11:13 pm

I’ve also used DVD Speed Scan Disc on most of my DVD discs, and I have never gotten a bad result with that (Maxell or Fuji). Every single disc has come up 100% clean. No errors, no damaged or unreadable sectors- and that’s regardless of the score I got with the Disc Quality Test.

Even the one Fuji DVD+R disc which had a large amount of P1 Failures with the Disc Quality Check, came up completely clean with CD/DVD Scan Disc. Not one damaged or unreadable sector according to that.

I check my discs after I burn them, but I have to wonder if the Disc Quality Test results mean anything. Even when I do get bad results with the DQT, Scan Disc shows that there's no problem. As I said in my last post, I've only had a problem with one CDR disc and that's it. I keep my CDs and DVDs in a dry, dark place, and they seem to be in good shape.
gm2015
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 11:49 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri May 27, 2005 12:25 am

gm2015 wrote:I’ve also used DVD Speed Scan Disc on most of my DVD discs, and I have never gotten a bad result with that (Maxell or Fuji). Every single disc has come up 100% clean. No errors, no damaged or unreadable sectors- and that’s regardless of the score I got with the Disc Quality Test.

Even the one Fuji DVD+R disc which had a large amount of P1 Failures with the Disc Quality Check, came up completely clean with CD/DVD Scan Disc. Not one damaged or unreadable sector according to that.

I check my discs after I burn them, but I have to wonder if the Disc Quality Test results mean anything. Even when I do get bad results with the DQT, Scan Disc shows that there's no problem. As I said in my last post, I've only had a problem with one CDR disc and that's it. I keep my CDs and DVDs in a dry, dark place, and they seem to be in good shape.


It never maybe occured to you that the Scan Disc results might not really mean anything?
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby Halc on Fri May 27, 2005 1:48 am

I've only burned a couple of Fujifilm DVD+R 8x (YUDEN 000 T02, Made in Japan, bought in Germany) on Nec ND-3540A (fw. 1.01)

They've scanned well good on PX-716A, ND-3540A, DVR-A09, SOHW-1693S and SD-M1802.

I have noticed a higher number of small PIF/PIE spikes towards the end of the disc (on some drives), than with my Plextor branded TY T02 +discs, but I'm not sure if this is just a coincidence.

Dolphinius_rex,

could the problematic Fujifilm/TY discs have been a bad batch or have they been consistently not of highest TY quality for some time already?

I'm also interested in this, as I'm looking for a source of moderately priced T02 myself. Here in Europe Fujifilm is an obvious choice as it's c. 30-50% cheaper than Plextor branded TY DVD+R 8x. I won't even talk about the fakes that cost 1/10 of Plextor prices :)

cheers,
halc
User avatar
Halc
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 599
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2002 9:13 am

Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri May 27, 2005 2:19 am

Halc wrote:
Dolphinius_rex,

could the problematic Fujifilm/TY discs have been a bad batch or have they been consistently not of highest TY quality for some time already?

I'm also interested in this, as I'm looking for a source of moderately priced T02 myself. Here in Europe Fujifilm is an obvious choice as it's c. 30-50% cheaper than Plextor branded TY DVD+R 8x. I won't even talk about the fakes that cost 1/10 of Plextor prices :)

cheers,
halc


From what I've been told, the problem has existed for a few months, but only recently has the stock appeared in North America.

I'm told Verbatim's TY media will be easily available and lower in price soon for people in Europe.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby RJW on Fri May 27, 2005 2:35 am

Not lower as FUJI but it seems to go down to a decent level.
RJW
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: The netherlands

Postby gm2015 on Fri May 27, 2005 12:31 pm

It never maybe occured to you that the Scan Disc results might not really mean anything?

Dolphinus, you might be right about Scan Disc. The point I was trying to make is that I haven't had any problems with those discs that got less than great results using the Disc Quality Test.

I have had discs where, because of one single P1 Failure spike, I got a low grade. Yet, none of them have every given me a problem. The same goes for the CDRs where I have gotten low grades using the DQT. They haven't given me any problems, either. And It may be that the reason I've gotten these lower scores using the DQT has more to do with the drive that I'm scanning them with than the drive I'm writing them with.

I use the JMLS drive to scan both CDRs and DVDRs because the NEC recorder doesn't work with the Disc Quality Test (except to read C2 errors on CDRs). When I see that the JMLS has a tendency to find C2 errors almost always at the same spot on CDRs, and that happens regardless of the brand and the drive the CDR was burned on, shouldn't I assume that there's a quirk, and that might also apply to reading DVDRs, where it also has a tendency to find one single spike of P1 failures?

Should I go out and buy myself another DVD burner, even if the discs copied on my current new burner have never given me any trouble?
gm2015
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 11:49 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Postby gm2015 on Fri May 27, 2005 1:17 pm

Dolphinus:

I became interested in the Fuji made in Japan DVDs because they are made by Taiyo Yuden and because of posts that I read right on this website that said that they were good. Most of the favorable posts that I read about them were not recent ones. You say that you've heard that the bad stock has just recently appeared in North America. That's something I hadn't heard, but have to take into consideration.

The reason that I asked the question is that I recently got that one very bad scan from a disc that I acquired in a trade. It was so bad (not just one single P1 Failure spike) that it surprised me. Maybe this is from the bad stock that you are referring to.
gm2015
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 11:49 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Postby gm2015 on Fri May 27, 2005 3:09 pm

Dolphinus:

Here are the results from the one Fuji DVD+R that I have:

Avg P1 Errors: 803.73
Max: 1353
Total: 9937152

Avg P1 Failures: 28.55
Max: 182
Total: 1048353

For a stretch that covered almost half of the disc, I had P1 Failure Max of at least 40.

I have never gotten results this bad with any of the other DVDs that I have (Fuji DVD-R, Maxell or TDK). Nothing comes close to this.

I wasn't thrilled to see that my local Best Buy is no longer selling 10 packs of Fuji TY DVDs, but maybe this bad stock is the reason why.
gm2015
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 11:49 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Postby dolphinius_rex on Fri May 27, 2005 4:23 pm

It's pretty bad looking... but the scores really have little value on their own. Try doing a transfer rate test at 12x (if you can). If the graph is smooth, then I wouldn't worry THAT much... but if the graph is choppy then there is probably a problem.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby Scour on Fri May 27, 2005 4:51 pm

gm2015 wrote:Here are the results from the one Fuji DVD+R that I have:

Avg P1 Errors: 803.73
Max: 1353
Total: 9937152

Avg P1 Failures: 28.55
Max: 182
Total: 1048353



Ugly error-rates. Do you scan with a DVD-ROM?
Benq DW 1640, LG GH-20N, Pioneer BDR-208
Crucial M4, Sandisk SSD, Plextor M5S, Sandisk Ultra Plus, OCZ Petrol 256GB

cu
Scour
Scour
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1909
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Germany

Postby dodecahedron on Fri May 27, 2005 6:35 pm

gm2015 wrote:I use the JMLS drive to scan both CDRs and DVDRs because the NEC recorder doesn't work with the Disc Quality Test (except to read C2 errors on CDRs).

doesn't that mean a DVD-ROM ?
BTW it's JLMS
http://www.jlms.com.tw/jlms.htm
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie
-- JRRT
M.C. Escher - Reptilien
User avatar
dodecahedron
DVD Polygon
 
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:04 am
Location: Israel

Postby Scour on Fri May 27, 2005 6:45 pm

dodecahedron wrote:
gm2015 wrote:I use the JMLS drive to scan both CDRs and DVDRs because the NEC recorder doesn't work with the Disc Quality Test (except to read C2 errors on CDRs).

doesn't that mean a DVD-ROM ?
BTW it's JLMS
http://www.jlms.com.tw/jlms.htm


I know that a DVD-ROM from Liteon is not a good scanner
Benq DW 1640, LG GH-20N, Pioneer BDR-208
Crucial M4, Sandisk SSD, Plextor M5S, Sandisk Ultra Plus, OCZ Petrol 256GB

cu
Scour
Scour
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1909
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Germany

Postby jase on Fri May 27, 2005 9:38 pm

I just got some Fuji TYs, only to find that the top two discs had blotches in the writable area on the underside.

This I would not expect from Princo, never mind TY.

Having said that the remaining 23 discs have performed impeccably,so this is a strange one.
jase
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 965
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 8:00 pm

Postby gm2015 on Fri May 27, 2005 11:27 pm

"Ugly error-rates. Do you scan with a DVD-ROM?"

Scour:

I scan with a JLMS XJ-HD166S DVD/CD-ROM Drive. I use it for the Disc Quality Test because my NEC 1300A does not read P1 errors and P1 Failures. Only the JLMS works with CD/DVD Speed.

Those Fuji DVD+R results are atypical of what I get. Usually, I get a single spike of P1 Failures (anywhere between 10-25) and the disc otherwise looks good.

Dolphinus:

I will try the transer test. Thanks.
gm2015
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 11:49 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Postby gm2015 on Sat May 28, 2005 12:41 pm

Dolphinus:

I did the transfer test. Right from the spot where the P1 Failure rate shoots up, to a little bit past where it ends, the graph is nowhere close to being smooth on the Fuji DVD+R.

I did transfer tests with two others. One was a Datawrite (CMC) DVD-R, which had a maximum P1 Failure of only 4 (grade of 90, it's best result I've gotten so far), and a Maxell (Japan) DVD-R which had a max P1 Failure of 19 (one single spike) and a grade of 28. Both of these got smooth results with the transfer test.

Is the transfer test the best indicator of how good a disc is?
gm2015
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 11:49 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Postby dolphinius_rex on Sat May 28, 2005 1:30 pm

gm2015 wrote:Dolphinus:

I did the transfer test. Right from the spot where the P1 Failure rate shoots up, to a little bit past where it ends, the graph is nowhere close to being smooth on the Fuji DVD+R.

I did transfer tests with two others. One was a Datawrite (CMC) DVD-R, which had a maximum P1 Failure of only 4 (grade of 90, it's best result I've gotten so far), and a Maxell (Japan) DVD-R which had a max P1 Failure of 19 (one single spike) and a grade of 28. Both of these got smooth results with the transfer test.

Is the transfer test the best indicator of how good a disc is?


Well, the transfer rate test is deffinately going to be better then doing a PI/PIF scan using your DVD-ROM! It shows how easily that drive can read the media at full speed. If it can be read flawlessly at full speed, then the drive is either REALLY good, or the disc is in good shape. In your case the drive is fairly good, but as long as the results are only relative to you, then they should work quite well.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby Scour on Sat May 28, 2005 2:09 pm

gm2015 wrote:Dolphinus:


Is the transfer test the best indicator of how good a disc is?


Did you use official FW on your DVD-ROM? According to that test the 166s only read max. 9x

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=18363


Some sites are using patched FW for Liteon 166/167 or a NEC 3500 because the amx. speed for DVD-R and +R is 16x
Benq DW 1640, LG GH-20N, Pioneer BDR-208
Crucial M4, Sandisk SSD, Plextor M5S, Sandisk Ultra Plus, OCZ Petrol 256GB

cu
Scour
Scour
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 1909
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Germany

Postby gm2015 on Sat May 28, 2005 11:29 pm

I used the firmware that my computer came with.

When I did my scans last night, I set them for both 12x and 14x, but the scans of the Datawrite and Maxell discs went at speeds much lower for some reason. According to the PNG file, the scans of the Fuji discs were at 11.02x and 14.5x respectively.

I've come on this website many times and seen references to Lite-on drives, and never realized until tonight, that my JLMS was a Lite-on. Thanks for the link to the website. Althought I've gone to NEC's website before, I had never bothered to go to JLMS'.

This would mean that I can use KProbe to scan my discs. Which is better: K-Probe or CD/DVD Speed?
gm2015
CD-RW Thug
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 11:49 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York

Next

Return to DVD Writers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

All Content is Copyright (c) 2001-2017 CDRLabs Inc.