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KProbe2 v2.5.2 Available - Now Supports Blu-ray Testing!

General discussion about recordable CD, DVD and BD media and write quality testing.

Postby Scour on Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:51 pm

Hello!

Can it be that KProbe 2 doesn´t work with CD-media but only with DVD-media?
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Postby Ian on Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:32 pm

KProbe v2.2.3 is available. Download it here:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/files/KP2Setup.exe

Sorry.. Karr hasn't given me a changelog yet.
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Postby dhc014 on Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:50 pm

The changelog is on one of the first pages of the installation, it's a small update meant only to allow Instant Bitsetting with the new VS05 SOHW-832S firmware.

1. Add "Write Now" button for bit setting function
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Postby Scour on Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:48 pm

http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/147/5

The KProbe-results totally different to the real burning-quality. KProbe shows good results, but the DVD´s can´t be completily read or the read-speed goes down :-?
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Postby Ian on Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:50 pm

KProbe2 v2.2.5 - 8/5/2004

Download: http://www.cdrlabs.com/files/KP2Setup225.exe

Changelog:

1. Cancel PIF sum ECC option
2. Changed the algorithm to increase the sampling rate

Pay attention to the PIF sum change. You won't be able to compare these scans to those done with the PIF sum set to 1.
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Postby Ian on Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:30 am

KProbe2 v2.3.0 - 8/12/2004

Changelog:

1. Add "Check update" function

Download:
http://www.cdrlabs.com/files/KP2Setup.exe
http://s87915552.onlinehome.us/cdrlabs/KP2Setup230.exe
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Postby MediumRare on Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:49 pm

Ian wrote:KProbe2 v2.3.0 - 8/12/2004

Changelog:

1. Add "Check update" function

Thanks for the info, Ian.

I tried out the check-function and was told (as expected) that it's the newest version. I didn't see any indication of where the program looked, but I'm sure someone with more IP-savy can sniff it out.

I think I'll stay with 2.2.3 for a while. I don't think that PIF Sum 8 (which is what you get with 8 ECC blocks) is a significant number. For me, the alternative would be to sum over 1 ECC block and ignore the PI distribution (sum is OK). I've found PI Sum 8 variations of up to a factor of 5 in repeated scans of the same disc under identical nominal conditions :o and tend to look more at the PIF values, which vary a lot less.

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Postby Ian on Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:45 pm

Karr just doesn't stop..

KProbe2 v2.3.2 - 8/13/2004

Changelog:

1. Added IOP Test in Drive Info (Not all drives support this feature)

rdgrimes has more info on this feature here: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php ... post658074

Download:
http://www.cdrlabs.com/files/KP2Setup.exe
http://s87915552.onlinehome.us/cdrlabs/KP2Setup232.exe
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Postby rdgrimes on Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:27 pm

Also, in case some might have missed 2.3.1, the 8/1 ECC summing has been reinstituted.
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Postby hydrogen on Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:40 pm

I' m glad it was back. I hated to see it disappear.

Why did he get rid of it and why did he bring it back?
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Postby Ian on Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:53 pm

I haven't had time to update the KProbe page (yet), but here is 2.4.0:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/files/KP2Setup240.exe

Changelog:
1. Added drive identify information
2. Support user-defined language [Default: English Chinese]
3. Added simple summary report after scanning
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Postby MediumRare on Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:23 pm

Thank you for the further updates, Karr. I especially appreciate the return of the ECC 8/1 option in 2.3.1 ! The text summary report of the scan is also a great addition.

The language files are also an interesting addition (although I'll stay with English). I found some problems there while playing around a bit, though (more info by email).

I have a couple of requests for further tweaks in handling:
  • It would be great to be able to save custom titles for the graph instead of PI/PIF and not have to set them each time (like the scaling options). And also an option to reset them to the standard text.
  • When saving data in 2 formats, e.g. as file.PNG and then file.RAW, the first extension for the file name is saved and is used as the default for the second save action, e.g. the program attempts to write RAW data to file.PNG. This sometimes (but not always) results in an error message. It would be better if the default extension would change when the data type changes.
  • The check for a new program version is handy, but it is unnerving when there is a new version: it shows a "checking update" message and starts to load without any further indication that this is happening. I'm on a dial-up connection and the first time this happened, I thought that the program had locked up because it didn't react to anything anymore :(. A little message saying that a new version is being loaded would help.
Thank you for continuing to improve your tool!

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Postby hydrogen on Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:25 pm

Does anyone know the answer to my question? If so, I would really appreciate if somone answered it :D
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Postby MediumRare on Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:08 am

hydrogen wrote:Does anyone know the answer to my question? If so, I would really appreciate if somone answered it :D

I'm not sure if this is the reason for the change, but I looked into this a while ago. I didn't get around to posting it till now. The main point seems to be
2.Changed the algorithm to increase the sampling rate


To get an idea of what the improved scanning strategy is up to, I checked the sample lengths (difference in LBA values at the PI Sum 8 samples from the RAW or CSV files) for several versions of KProbe with a "good" disc (FUJI branded ProdiscS03 DVD-R), all scans done with my SOHW 1213S at 4x. After plotting this information with Excel, it's very apparent that the samples fall into 2 bands with Version 2.2.3: ca. 128 and 144 sectors.

Image

128 sectors correspond to 8 ECC blocks (@ 16 sectors).

My guess is that the 144 sector samples result either from having to poll every ECC sector (16 sectors) to acquire the data for PIF (Sum 1) or from delays caused by averaging and/or displaying the results.

The distribution is very similar if PI and PIF are both summed over 8 ECC blocks in this version, so I didn't plot it.

The new version 2.2.5 updates the counts on screen less often than before and shows only one band- so the sampling is more uniform. However, most samples are actually shorter than 128 sectors (the most common length is 126), so that the values may not accurately represent the "sum over 8 ECC blocks".

Maybe Karr can comment on that.

KProbe 1.1.29 also had a common summing region for PI and PIF, so I checked that as well- it also shows 2 bands (like 2.2.3) so 2.2.5 is definitely more uniform.

The version 2.3.2 with the reinstated 8/1 ECC sum shows the same sampling as 2.2.5, so my guess may not be accurate or Karr has managed to reduce the overhead. The following diagram summarizes the sample sizes for these 4 versions:

Image

During this analysis, I ran across a further question regarding the "Sampling count" shown in the saved diagram. This seems to be 7x the number of samples in the CSV or RAW file and I don't understand this factor. I'd expect either the same number or a factor of 8 (or whatever is used for the ECC count).

Hope this helps.

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Postby rdgrimes on Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:46 am

There were 2 main reasons stated by the author for removing the dual ECC summing. 1st was that it creates 2 graphs that cannot be combined. Second was that removing it increased the sampling rate a bit.
Also he fealt that using 2 sums was not all that useful in the first place, and being able to combine the graphs was more usefull.

The difference between 8 ECC and 1ECC sums for PIF is really only apparent whan you have high error rates or tightly packed errors, and even then the difference is questionable. People are way to obsessed with some notion of "accuracy" in scans, (and with comparing scans), and missing the fact that with either 1 or 8 summing, a good disc still looks good, and a crappy one still looks crappy.
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Postby alexnoe on Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:36 pm

Here is a suggestion:

My LiteOn 165 can't scan double-layer dvd+r discs, even though it can perfectly read them in nero dvd speed.

It reaches 50%, throws PUH errors, and at 50,5% - 51%, it again continues to scan normally.
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Postby Ian on Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:43 pm

rdgrimes wrote:People are way to obsessed with some notion of "accuracy" in scans, (and with comparing scans), and missing the fact that with either 1 or 8 summing, a good disc still looks good, and a crappy one still looks crappy.


I'll drink to that.
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Postby hydrogen on Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:08 pm

Thank you guys for answering my question :D
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Postby Halc on Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:31 pm

Still a question remains: where do you draw the line between a crummy scan and a good scan?

Is this purely a subjective choice based on heuristics?

And furthermore, if the drive is missing the reporting of some errors during a read session (errors that are evident in that particular reading), then is this "missing of reporting true errors" linear and deterministic in behaviour?

Or will it vary from situation to another in an unknown manner, making two scans within the same drive incomparable with each other on any useful level?

It'd be interesting to research the latter issue, if a suitable methodology can be invented for it.
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Problems in Kprobe2

Postby BomBastik on Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:05 pm

I'm having problems just running Kprobe2.

Before I had a PX-708a and LG GDR8162B so it won't work either way, but when I ran it, it just froze (splash screen and thats it).

I've just bought LiteON SOHD-167T DVDrom and suprise, the same behaviour... just a frozen splash screen (regardless of what media I have in my drives).

Anyone had the same problem? I've tried from Kprobe2 2.3.0 to 2.4.0 and the results are the same.

PS: If I wait for 1 minute, my PX-40TS resets (SCSI reset) and keeps doing that every minute while Kprobe2.exe is running.
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Re: Problems in Kprobe2

Postby Bhairav on Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:06 pm

BomBastik wrote:I'm having problems just running Kprobe2.

Before I had a PX-708a and LG GDR8162B so it won't work either way, but when I ran it, it just froze (splash screen and thats it).

I've just bought LiteON SOHD-167T DVDrom and suprise, the same behaviour... just a frozen splash screen (regardless of what media I have in my drives).

Anyone had the same problem? I've tried from Kprobe2 2.3.0 to 2.4.0 and the results are the same.

PS: If I wait for 1 minute, my PX-40TS resets (SCSI reset) and keeps doing that every minute while Kprobe2.exe is running.


Umm..you missed the point. KProbe is only usable only with Lite-On DVD writers, not that smorgasbord of drives you've tried it with.
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Re: Problems in Kprobe2

Postby BomBastik on Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:34 pm

bhairavp wrote:
Umm..you missed the point. KProbe is only usable only with Lite-On DVD writers, not that smorgasbord of drives you've tried it with.


Strange, I was under the impression that to test PI/PO I needed only a drive that does that (and this one does, I've tried in other programs).

But that's besides the point of what I'm bringing to this forum :)

On the PC at work, even though I have no burners and only a Samsung DVDROM 16x, it does boot and work, I'm just no able to do any tests with that drive....

On my home PC, it doesn't even bough at all. It just freezes on the splash screen....
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Re: Problems in Kprobe2

Postby MediumRare on Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:58 pm

BomBastik wrote:On my home PC, it doesn't even bough at all. It just freezes on the splash screen....

Are you sure that your ASPI layer is OK? You can check this with the Nero InfoTool.

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Re: Problems in Kprobe2

Postby BomBastik on Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:40 pm

MediumRare wrote: Are you sure that your ASPI layer is OK? You can check this with the Nero InfoTool.

G



Well, since I have a SCSI subsystem with a Tekram DC-390F, I thought of that (seeing the SCSI resets, and 'cause DC-390F is not a elitist Adaptec, the ASPI is a troublesome point), but it is fine.

System ASPI is version 4.60 (1021) on all files (wnaspi32.dll, aspi32.dll, winaspi.dll, wowpost.exe).
Nero ASPI is version 2.0.1.59 (wnaspi32.dll).

Any more ideias? It would be swell if Kprobe2 would produce some sort of troubleshooting log to see where it is feezing.

Thanx
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Re: Problems in Kprobe2

Postby MediumRare on Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:14 pm

BomBastik wrote:Any more ideas?

I don't know what kind of mobo you have, but some people with NVidia chipsets have reported problems with the NVidia IDE-drivers. If this applies to your rig, try using the original MS drivers.

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