Home News Reviews Forums Shop


Weird Dual Layer Buring Observation

DVD-R/W, DVD+R/RW, DVD-RAM

Weird Dual Layer Buring Observation

Postby jberry on Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:46 pm

You know I thought I would do a Test of some home movies burning onto DVD+R DL booktyped to DVD-ROM on the Benq 1640. All on Verbatim DL, same firmware and everything.

2.4x burn=quality score of 44
4X burn=Quality score of 74
8x burn=Quality Score of 88

Now I am not going to wa$te any more media so this may be an unscientific question, but why does 8X speed burn better? I would have thought 2.4 would have given best results.
jberry
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:48 pm

Postby Justin42 on Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:56 pm

Firmware is just probably more highly optimized to burn at 8x... you'll find weird variations on ANY media. They may support burning at a variety of speeds, but they really tweak it to work best at some specific speed(s).
Justin42
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 10:30 pm

Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:49 am

This is also ONLY basing your opinion off of the auto-generated CD/DVD Speed score.

Personally, I NEVER consider it. Reading graphs is more an art then a science.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby hoxlund on Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:52 am

burning a verbatim DL in my plextor just for you guys

putting all my microsoft office/windows images on it, so should be pretty damn full
Attachments
DL Contents.JPG
DL Contents.JPG (63.18 KiB) Viewed 5201 times
second.JPG
second.JPG (55.42 KiB) Viewed 5197 times
Thermaltake Core X5 Snow Edition TG Case
Corsair RM1000 Power Supply
MSI X399 Gaming Pro Carbon AC
AMD Threadripper 1950x @ 4.1GHz
Custom Loop w/ EK MSI x399 Monoblock
G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 3200 RGB Memory
MSI 1080Ti Lightning X Video Card
User avatar
hoxlund
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 3708
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 12:55 am
Location: Idaho

Postby hoxlund on Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:22 am

18 minutes 21 seconds to burn, starting the scan, but i have to go to work
Thermaltake Core X5 Snow Edition TG Case
Corsair RM1000 Power Supply
MSI X399 Gaming Pro Carbon AC
AMD Threadripper 1950x @ 4.1GHz
Custom Loop w/ EK MSI x399 Monoblock
G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 3200 RGB Memory
MSI 1080Ti Lightning X Video Card
User avatar
hoxlund
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 3708
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 12:55 am
Location: Idaho

Postby ItalianJob on Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:27 am

dolphinius_rex wrote:This is also ONLY basing your opinion off of the auto-generated CD/DVD Speed score.

Personally, I NEVER consider it. Reading graphs is more an art then a science.


Yeah, but score are quite low, meaning the max PIF are high.

Maybe your 1640 firmware is not the good one. There's too many buggy firmwares for the 1640 #-o
User avatar
ItalianJob
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: France

Postby jberry on Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:44 am

well I am using version L, never went past that. I just found that the the scores were so variable depending on speed. I just tried another 8x burn with a score of 90, so I guess 8x is good for 1640. The first 8x burn has played flawlessly on 10 players so far. Only real issue is what happens at layer break, all have been superb. Again these are just my obervations...I will stick with 8x I guess. I have the graph of the original 8x sscore of 88....will post it when I return home.
jberry
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:48 pm

Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:52 pm

ItalianJob wrote:
dolphinius_rex wrote:This is also ONLY basing your opinion off of the auto-generated CD/DVD Speed score.

Personally, I NEVER consider it. Reading graphs is more an art then a science.


Yeah, but score are quite low, meaning the max PIF are high.

Maybe your 1640 firmware is not the good one. There's too many buggy firmwares for the 1640 #-o


I haven't had a problem with any of the DW1640 firmwares yet... and even the complaints I've heard have been really very small compared to problems with the DW1620 and buggy firmwares. (and I could always compare to LiteON :P)
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby hoxlund on Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:55 pm

i didn't have time to do an entire scandisc, 84% done this morning and was still 100% perfect

ill check more when i get home

btw, burned with latest firmware on plextor 716 at the 6x speed

7990MB of data, so quite full

i would do a nice big DL retail movie, but you know me, i don't have any
Thermaltake Core X5 Snow Edition TG Case
Corsair RM1000 Power Supply
MSI X399 Gaming Pro Carbon AC
AMD Threadripper 1950x @ 4.1GHz
Custom Loop w/ EK MSI x399 Monoblock
G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 3200 RGB Memory
MSI 1080Ti Lightning X Video Card
User avatar
hoxlund
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 3708
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 12:55 am
Location: Idaho

Postby ItalianJob on Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:43 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:I haven't had a problem with any of the DW1640 firmwares yet... and even the complaints I've heard have been really very small compared to problems with the DW1620 and buggy firmwares. (and I could always compare to LiteON :P)


I've heard a lot of problems with 1640 solidburn till the last firmware.

Fewer with 1600=>1620 pro (remember the free gift ?). Everyone has different thoughts, that makes the world go round :)
User avatar
ItalianJob
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: France

Postby jberry on Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:52 pm

solidburn is not used on +R DL
jberry
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:48 pm

Postby jberry on Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:56 pm

Here is 4x....
Attachments
4x.PNG
4x.PNG (75.91 KiB) Viewed 5114 times
jberry
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:48 pm

Postby jberry on Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:57 pm

and 8x...is a wide variation
Attachments
8x.PNG
8x.PNG (84.92 KiB) Viewed 5112 times
jberry
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:48 pm

Postby dolphinius_rex on Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:39 pm

Yeah, I gotta admit, at those performance differences, I would probably burn at 8x too! :wink:
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby Ian on Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:50 pm

You gotta wonder why BenQ doesn't let you write to Verbatim's 2.4x DVD+R DL media at 8x with the DW1655.
"Blu-ray is just a bag of hurt." - Steve Jobs
User avatar
Ian
Grand Poobah
 
Posts: 15127
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 2:34 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Postby jberry on Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:48 pm

2.4x score was 44 with 23000 PI Failures...bizarre
jberry
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:48 pm

Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:25 am

Ian wrote:You gotta wonder why BenQ doesn't let you write to Verbatim's 2.4x DVD+R DL media at 8x with the DW1655.


Because most drives (including BenQ DW1640's) do *NOT* get those kind of results at 8x. 4x is good, 6x is ok/good, but 8x is usually less then ok.

Pioneer suffers from the same problem with the DVR-110/D.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby ItalianJob on Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:31 am

Well, I have seen better burns on 1640 and same DL media in a french forum

But the 1640 seems to give big variations on this media :(

Firmware BSNB : MKM001@4X
Image
User avatar
ItalianJob
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: France

Postby jberry on Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:13 pm

I have never got a 96 with DL!!!!! Maybe burned 20 in total.

What is REALLY aggrivating is that the manufacturers never given even an idea as to what a good speed is for DL....I never would have thought that 8x on my 1640 was the best speed (seems to be). If they are optimizing for that speed they really should tell us so we don't waste time and $. They could even have a disclaimer saying that not all drives will respond this way.....

why don't they do this in the release notes to firmware?
jberry
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:48 pm

Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:40 pm

jberry wrote:I have never got a 96 with DL!!!!! Maybe burned 20 in total.

What is REALLY aggrivating is that the manufacturers never given even an idea as to what a good speed is for DL....I never would have thought that 8x on my 1640 was the best speed (seems to be). If they are optimizing for that speed they really should tell us so we don't waste time and $. They could even have a disclaimer saying that not all drives will respond this way.....

why don't they do this in the release notes to firmware?


I know on Verbatim's part, they have told me that 8x is too fast, and their 2.4x DVD+RDL should not be burned faster then 6x, based on their own results. From my *OWN* testing, I'd agree, but from the results posted in this thread, I'd say some exceptions apply :wink:
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby ItalianJob on Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:49 pm

jberry wrote:I have never got a 96 with DL!!!!! Maybe burned 20 in total.


Maybe you've not the good firmware... Look the firmware in the pic. Would leave BSLB and try BSNB or more.
I didn't check all the changelog on the BenQ site to see if there is some improvment for DL since BSLB.

For info, that's what I get with my BenQ 1620 @4X with B7W9 and ImgBurn 1.1 :
Image
94+ scores are not so rare with MKM001.
User avatar
ItalianJob
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: France

Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:05 pm

ItalianJob:

The scan DOES however show that there is a noticable problem with the second layer when compared to the first. Although the error rates themselves are nothing to be concerned with, it does speak of other potential things that could be wrong with the disc.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby jberry on Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:22 pm

@dolph....

6x? Never had an option to burn at 6x....just 2.4, 4, 8
jberry
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:48 pm

Postby dolphinius_rex on Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:56 pm

jberry wrote:@dolph....

6x? Never had an option to burn at 6x....just 2.4, 4, 8


I don't think every drive can do it, but that's what Verbatim told me is their highest recommended burn speed. You'll notice on the packaging there's usually something that says "Up to 6x compatible with some drives!" or something like that.
Punch Cards -> Paper Tape -> Tape Drive -> 8" Floppy Diskette -> 5 1/4" Floppy Diskette -> 3 1/2" "Flippy" Diskette -> CD-R -> DVD±R -> BD-R

The Progression of Computer Media
User avatar
dolphinius_rex
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:14 pm
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada

Postby ItalianJob on Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:07 pm

dolphinius_rex wrote:ItalianJob:

The scan DOES however show that there is a noticable problem with the second layer when compared to the first. Although the error rates themselves are nothing to be concerned with, it does speak of other potential things that could be wrong with the disc.


Well I read back this DVD+R DL booktyped to DVD-ROM on my (very) touchy now Philips DVD737 without any problems. There's "The Italian Job" on it, lol !

By the way, my LG 4166 1.01 can (theorically) burn DVD+R DL MKM001 @ 2.4X-4X-6X. Never tested, I'm waiting for some firmware before, at the current DL cost, lol !
User avatar
ItalianJob
CD-RW Player
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: France

Next

Return to DVD Writers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

All Content is Copyright (c) 2001-2024 CDRLabs Inc.