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Official K-Probe Discussion (Tool for Scanning C1C2/PIPO)

General discussion about recordable CD, DVD and BD media and write quality testing.

Postby CDRecorder on Mon Aug 25, 2003 1:18 pm

The main reason I was wondering is because Smart-Burn 3 reports the recording speed wrong, and Smart-Burn 2 reports the speed correctly. I'll try it with a blank disc.

P.S. Good thought.
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Postby aviationwiz on Tue Aug 26, 2003 6:02 pm

With 2.4x Ritek media in the drive:

Image


I haven't been able to find any program that can identify DVD Plus media properly. All the other programs that that all my media is made by Ricoh (even the ones made by Ritek)
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Postby CDHero on Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:47 pm

aviationwiz wrote:With 2.4x Ritek media in the drive:

I haven't been able to find any program that can identify DVD Plus media properly. All the other programs that that all my media is made by Ricoh (even the ones made by Ritek)


Please try v3.1.1.Thanks.
If you have SONY DVD Dual drive , I think it will work fine.
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Postby cfitz on Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:18 pm

Okay, here is an example user defined database file for use with version 3.1.0 (see the little button in the lower left corner of the SmartBurn window):

Code: Select all
[CD]
972665_795974=Joe's CD-R/W emporium

[DVD]
5249434F484A504E57303101=Big House DVD

As you can see, you specify CDs under the CD section by writing the ATIP start of lead-in code followed by an underscore followed by the ATIP last possible lead-out code followed by an equals sign and then the name of the manufacturer.

You specify DVDs under the DVD section be writing (in hexadecimal) the 24 bytes of the manufacturer ID as returned by the ReadDVDStructure command (you can find this in KProbe on the Raw Cmd tab) followed by an equals sign followed by the name of the manufacturer.

And here is what you get:

Image

(This is actually a code for CMC Magnetics, and SmartBurn does recognize it, but I overrode it to demonstrate the user defined database)

This is great! Thanks a lot, whoever made this available! :D

By the way, this works for version 3.1.1 as well. Version 3.1.1 doesn't have the little button to add the file in, but still automatically reads the file as specified in the named value "UserDefinedFule" in the registry key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\SmartBurn.

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Postby rdgrimes on Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:27 pm

I think I'll just stick with TY, it's easier! :o
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Postby cfitz on Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:33 pm

By the way, I forgot to mention that you can get SmartBurn 3.1.1 over at CDFreaks:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php ... adid=74268

Thanks for hosting it, rdgrimes. :D

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Postby aviationwiz on Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:28 am

karr_wang wrote:
aviationwiz wrote:With 2.4x Ritek media in the drive:

I haven't been able to find any program that can identify DVD Plus media properly. All the other programs that that all my media is made by Ricoh (even the ones made by Ritek)


Please try v3.1.1.Thanks.
If you have SONY DVD Dual drive , I think it will work fine.


Still no go. It gives the speed, but not the manufacturer. Getting there. Thanks for all your hard work and dedication Karr!

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I get a lot of C1 errors - any help would be appreciated

Postby curiousSam on Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:56 am

Hi,

I have a Lite-On LTR-52327S (Firmware=QS06)

I burnt a test CD:
Media: Fuji 48x, 700MB (TY) media
Burn Sped: 52x, TAO using Nero 5.5.10.0

When I use KProbe's "Write Strategy" to check the C1/C2 errors, reading at 32x, it gives me approximately 13000 C1 errors, and 11 C2 errors.

My concern is that I bought a Lite-On, and Fuji TY media because the review at CDRLabs for the Lite-On 52327S showed only 568 C1 errors and 0 C2 errors.

Am I doing something wrong here.

I'd greatly appreciate any input.

Thanks,
cS
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Postby rdgrimes on Thu Aug 28, 2003 11:15 am

Lite-On LTR-52327S (Firmware=QS06)

Update your firmware and try again.
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Postby aviationwiz on Thu Aug 28, 2003 11:43 am

Yeah, from what I know, the LTR-52327S before the QS09 firmware was not very good.
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Postby curiousSam on Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:15 pm

rdgrimes wrote:
Lite-On LTR-52327S (Firmware=QS06)

Update your firmware and try again.


Thanks for the suggestion. I tried that last-night. However, the upgrade did not go through. I have installed my drive in an external Fire-Wire enclosure. The firmware (windows version) identifies the drive, but when trying to flash the ROM, just get's hung. I'll remove the drive from the enclosure and put it on a regular EIDE channel and try tonight.

Thanks for your reply. However, the new firmware description just says "Match more media". I'm really curious if this could really b the culprit.

I'll write back with my results.

Thanks,
cS
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Postby Inertia on Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:35 pm

curiousSam,

On your next test burn, try using Disk at Once instead of Track at Once.

TAO produces artifacts that can be interpreted as errors. A DAO burn would be better overall for comparision purposes.
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Postby Ian on Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:38 pm

aviationwiz wrote:Yeah, from what I know, the LTR-52327S before the QS09 firmware was not very good.


What you talkin about Willis? The quality with QS09 is better, but it was still very good with earlier versions.
"Blu-ray is just a bag of hurt." - Steve Jobs
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Postby curiousSam on Fri Aug 29, 2003 10:53 am

rdgrimes / Inertia / aviationwiz / Ian

I flashed the QS09 firmware on my LTR-52327S and burnt a 700MB 48x Fuji TY @ 52x in DAO mode using Nero 5.5.10.0

The results are still very disconcerting.

When running KProbe's C1/C2 error check, reading the disc at 32x gave me about 8000 C1 errors, and 0 C2 errors.

I am still very concerned about the C1 errors - I was expecting to get less than 1000, as Ian found when doing the review.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,
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Postby dhc014 on Fri Aug 29, 2003 10:58 am

curiousSam wrote:rdgrimes / Inertia / aviationwiz / Ian

I flashed the QS09 firmware on my LTR-52327S and burnt a 700MB 48x Fuji TY @ 52x in DAO mode using Nero 5.5.10.0

The results are still very disconcerting.

When running KProbe's C1/C2 error check, reading the disc at 32x gave me about 8000 C1 errors, and 0 C2 errors.

I am still very concerned about the C1 errors - I was expecting to get less than 1000, as Ian found when doing the review.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,
curiousSam


Are you using the same brand of media as Ian?
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Postby CDRecorder on Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:33 am

curiousSam wrote:700MB 48x Fuji TY


I think Ian did use this media in the LTR-52327S Review.
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Postby rdgrimes on Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:41 am

8000 C1 errors

This is not particularly significant, as long as the max rate is low, don't worry about it.
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Postby aviationwiz on Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:45 am

The lowest it could get is 100 C1 Max (per minute)

That is according to my calculations. I'd say you might have a bad drive...?
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Postby CDRecorder on Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:02 pm

I don't think that the drive is bad. 8000 C1 errors in one disc isn't too bad.

For example, I just scanned a Memorex (TY) CD-R at 40x in my LTR-48125W. Here are the results:

C1: 30 Max, 13172 Total, 3.162 Avg.
C2: 0 Max, 0 Total, 0 Avg.

Notice that I had 13172 C1 errors. Although the quality of the burn isn't spectacular, it's certainly not too bad. curiousSam got less C1 errors than that, so I don't think his drive is bad. Maybe he has a different firmware version than Ian used in his review, or it is possible that his discs (from a different batch than Ian's, most likely) aren't quite as good.
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Postby aviationwiz on Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:10 pm

I'd go with the faulty drive, Lite-On has been known to have very poor build quality, in the fact that many are defective and have to go back 1 or 2 times before they get a good one.
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Postby rdgrimes on Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:31 pm

Unbelievable....... :roll:

The total C1 error count means absolutely nothing, taken out of context. Based on the limited information provided by the poster, there is absolutely no reason to assume the drive has any problem. I've seen total C1 counts in the range of 100,000-200,000 on discs that are quite functional, from burners that are not "defective". My personal record is 7,054,155, and this was on a 52246S that is most definitely not "defective".
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Postby aviationwiz on Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:38 pm

My first prediction is that the drive is defective.

curiousSam,

could you save the image for us and post it here? That would help a lot.
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Postby integspec on Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:09 am

Guys, How come the Smartburn 3.1.1 is not in Liteon site available for download? I had to downloaded it from CDFreaks (of course nothing wrong about it but curious).

Well, it worked also with my Samsung 348B Combo which is having T511 firmware. Could cross-compatibility with other drives be the reason for it's not being available for public download.

(Btw, I got in late on this thread, it's possible I'm missing a lot).

Maybe it's little late but thanks to KW for the perfect piece of program he wrote. Hope things are smooth and settled with you now.

Cheers.
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Postby rdgrimes on Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:40 am

It's not "officially released". It will work on other drives, but may not report the correct max burn speed for a given disc.
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Postby integspec on Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:26 pm

Guys, thanks for the reply.

Well I checked 3 different media on both drives (Liteon LTN52327S and Samsung SM-348B) and got these results.

SKC 48X 700MB 80Min Media:
Drive Type = CD-RW
Disc Type = CDR
Material = Phthalocyanine
Lead In = 97:26:26
Lead Out = 79:59:73
Nominal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 73f/LBA:359848)
Manufacturer Maybe = SKC(KOREA)
Smart-Burn Speed Limit = Wrt(52X),Rd(12X)

Imation 48X 700MB 80Min Media:
Drive Type = CD-RW
Disc Type = CDR (A+)
Material = Phthalocyanine
Lead In = 97:26:66
Lead Out = 79:59:71
Nominal Capacity = 702.82MB (79m 59s 71f/LBA:359846)
Manufacturer Maybe = CMC
Smart-Burn Speed Limit = Wrt(52X),Rd(12X)

Aion 32X 870MB 99Min Media:
Drive Type = COMBO
Disc Type = CDR (B-)
Material = Phthalocyanine
Lead In = 97:27:19
Lead Out = 79:59:74
Nominal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f/LBA:359849)
Manufacturer Maybe = Plasmon Data Systems Ltd.
Smart-Burn Speed Limit = Wrt(48X),Rd(12X)

Surprisingly, Samsung Combo showed the read speed as 48x (its native read speed) for all 3 media types where Liteon only showed 12X as shown above. Btw, Samsung can only write the advertised speed on all 3 media where Liteon can do 52x on both 80Min media and 32x on 99Min media respectively.

Question: In a nutshell, what is the average / acceptable C1/C2 ratio per burn?
And how should one judge whether his burn quality is good or bad by looking at these numbers?

Many thanks.
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